Hydrogen power internal combustion engines

[Bellow]

I guess my point is that the key issue that needs to be addressed is how do we consume less energy overall. At current, all method of energy production have massive environmental footprints. And the same applies to vehicle manufacturing. My worry is that when someone comes along and says 'hey, I found a clean method of propulsion' - be it BEV, FuelCell, Hydrogen fuel, etc - people start thinking 'great news, so we can all continue and buy more cars and drive them more'. JCB obviously make construction vehicles, which we clearly do need, but just to say that their engine isn't a 'get out of jail' card for our personal mobility issues.

If/when the energy is CO2 neutral we can consume as much as we want. Feel free to don the hair shirt if you must but given our well being and economy rely on energy we lose a lot if we fail to find sustainable energy.

 

[st13phil]

but given our well being and economy rely on energy we lose a lot if we fail to find sustainable energy.

The bit that the hair shirt brigade neatly forget is that there are large parts of the planet that can only comfortably sustain human habitation as a result of consuming substantial amounts of energy.

That’s the danger of looking at only one factor to the exclusion of all else.

 

[ChipChop]

That’s the danger of looking at only one factor to the exclusion of all else.

An example of the consequences of persuing net zero at all costs is the collapse of the once bountiful agricultural sector in Sri Lanka as a result of government restrictions on mineral fertilizer. The Sri Lankan government banned the use of fossil fuel-derived nitrogen fertilizers and pesticides, with disastrous consequences on the food supply there. The worlds food supply relies on fertilizers derived from fossil fuels.

 

[190]

Well we live in a insane world at the moment,

To close the door - through legislation - on any of the options at this stage would, imo, be an act of insanity.

Agreed, Net zero was largely an act act of virtue signalling with a plan based on wishful thinking. They should have left the problem of reducing emissions to the clever engineers that are being discussed her. Net zero won't happen anyway and it's about time that was recognised. We have a long history of innovation as long as the right questions are asked.

 

[markjay]

The bit that the hair shirt brigade neatly forget is that there are large parts of the planet that can only comfortably sustain human habitation as a result of consuming substantial amounts of energy....

More of a reason to conserve energy in areas where we're currently being wasteful?

 

[markjay]

To those who are responding to my own posts, just to say that I wasn't referring to CO2 or pollution or any type of emissions.

Simply producing energy, whether renewable, nuclear, or via cardon-burning, has a massive footprint on the environment.

We're mining millions of tones of iron ore, pouring millions of tones of concrete, and we're reshaping massive areas and destroying wildlife.

Of course we need to produce energy, but it's costing us the planet. We're causing disruption to our ecological systems and killing the local fauna and flora on a massive scale.

Encouraging people to consume more energy just because someone invented a 'green' engine is lunacy, in my opinion.

 

[StMarks]

To those who are responding to my own posts, just to say that I wasn't referring to CO2 or pollution or any type of emissions.

Simply producing energy, whether renewable, nuclear, or via cardon-burning, has a massive footprint on the environment.

We're mining millions of tones of iron ore, pouring millions of tones of concrete, and we're reshaping massive areas and destroying wildlife.

Of course we need to produce energy, but it's costing us the planet. We're causing disruption to our ecological systems and killing the local fauna and flora on a massive scale.

Encouraging people to consume more energy just because someone invented a 'green' engine is lunacy, in my opinion.

As previously discussed, the actual problem facing us is none of the above. All those, and the countless others, are merely symptoms of our actual problem aren't they.?

 

[markjay]

As previously discussed, the actual problem facing us is none of the above. All those, and the countless others, are merely symptoms of our actual problem aren't they.?

What are our actual problems then?

It seems to me that too many people are very busy trying to find the Holly Grail of an engine that will allow us to continue and manufacturer private cars at an increasing rate and then drive them more and more. What I am saying is that this Eldorado is nothing but a myth, there's no such thing as a 'green' car.

 

[StMarks]

What IS our actual problems then?

Correct me if I'm wrong. | Driving/Incidents/Roadrage

The simple answer is to ban all cars everywhere and just use taxis....... I suspect that the direction the market is being steered will see personal vehicle ownership akin to horseriding as a mode of transport. Like Johnny Cabs (Total Recall) vehicles will be constantly in use with passengers...

forums.mbclub.co.uk

Fwiw I believe that everyone in the world should have every advantage that we experience.
The world has ample natural resources, including hydrocarbon fuel for my vehicles. It can cope with regenerating from my annual flight to the snowy Alps. Plastic is not an environmental curse, rather it is an awesome & versatile material.

Hth..

 

[Dickster]

I guess my point is that the key issue that needs to be addressed is how do we consume less energy overall. At current, all method of energy production have massive environmental footprints. And the same applies to vehicle manufacturing. My worry is that when someone comes along and says 'hey, I found a clean method of propulsion' - be it BEV, FuelCell, Hydrogen fuel, etc - people start thinking 'great news, so we can all continue and buy more cars and drive them more'. JCB obviously make construction vehicles, which we clearly do need, but just to say that their engine isn't a 'get out of jail' card for our personal mobility issues.

You’re in dreamland. We’ve built societies across the world based on consumption and personal mobility.

And the ones with the power want us to continue consuming - you can’t have it both ways.

 

[markjay]

You’re in dreamland. We’ve built societies across the world based on consumption and personal mobility.

And the ones with the power want us to continue consuming - you can’t have it both ways.

You may be right. At current, 20% of the world's population consume 80% of the planet's resources. The only way of preventing my Dreamland from becoming a reality is by ensuring that the 80© never get to have what the 20% currently do. However, if the Chinese and Indian and Africans etc will all want to consume equal amounts of much energy per capita to that of the US and Europe - then my Dreamland will be a dream no more.

 

[Tonygw]

What are our actual problems then?

It seems to me that too many people are very busy trying to find the Holly Grail of an engine that will allow us to continue and manufacturer private cars at an increasing rate and then drive them more and more. What I am saying is that this Eldorado is nothing but a myth, there's no such thing as a 'green' car.

I saw a green car today!!? I think it was a Ford Focus RS? or am I dreaming?