I find it quite annoying really that the 190 16v is called "Cosworth"

poormansporsche

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I know its the accepted norm really but it is rather annoying as the car is quite simply not a Cosworth Car. OK so they did design and build the Head but that was about all, might as well call it a Mercedes Bosch , same principle. In the same token you may as well say that the Astra GTE/GSI 16v Redtop is a Cosworth as they designed the head on that as well but you dont see anyone calling it that like the 190 !!

Really is a mile away from the likes of the Escort Cosworth etc where Cosworth were involved from the floorplan up



Call it a 16V, Valver, 2.3 or 2.5 yes, Cosworth no :)


Brett
 

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So you have de-cosworth-ed your car, as you don't have the head anymore.

What do you call your car now ?

190 - 104 ?


190 - 3.2 ?

Ah; I see what you call it - can't see that detail when I'm typing.
 

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I never refer to them as Cosworth's. Mind, 99% of the time people call it a Cosworth. It's no Ford, it's a Merc , so it's (190E) 2.5-16.
I knew some owners that referred to theirs as 'Cosworth's ' but that was simply to 'talk up' the car and funny thing is it doesn't need to be 'talked up'.
 
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I dare say that part of the reason they are making strong money is because of the Cosworth link.
 

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I think they've been undervalued for a long time now and good ones are limited in supply. Also, the way the likes of E30 M3 prices rocketed over the last 7-8 years has potential buyers wakening up to 2.3/2.5-16's.

But, I'd say you are correct the Cosworth link is a key aspect for many and understandably too.
 

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Surely its the same as calling a lot of Mercs ---AMGs Its just a way of signifying a link[ real or part imagined] with a tuning company- a sort of shorthand for "tuned car" Like some BMW's are Alpinas some Fords are Shelbys etc Since most cars are a conglomeration of parts from different manufacturers anyway its sometimes difficult to know where Mercedes starts and Continental, Bosch, ATE, Lemfoder, TWR, LUCAS, SACHS. Delphi etc stops.:dk:
 
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poormansporsche

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Yep you are correct but the 16v is definately one of those cars that is better than the sum of its parts. When taken as a whole the engine is actually quite a small part of what makes the car so great. I personally think that calling it a Cosworth actually takes away what Mercedes were trying (and suceeded) to achieve
 

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I know its the accepted norm really but it is rather annoying as the car is quite simply not a Cosworth Car. OK so they did design and build the Head but that was about all, might as well call it a Mercedes Bosch , same principle. In the same token you may as well say that the Astra GTE/GSI 16v Redtop is a Cosworth as they designed the head on that as well but you dont see anyone calling it that like the 190 !!

Really is a mile away from the likes of the Escort Cosworth etc where Cosworth were involved from the floorplan up



Call it a 16V, Valver, 2.3 or 2.5 yes, Cosworth no :)


Brett
Brett - this is an age-old discussion that has surfaced many times before...:doh: :eek:

But...The heart and soul of a 2.3/2.5-16 is in the cylinder head design. It's unique to these cars and gives them the character that they display from the moment you turn the key right up to 7k+ RPM when driving them.

Bosch made parts for all W201s, many other MBs and millions of other cars - even to this day. Cosworth are special.

You don't have to stick badges on these cars to that effect. But a nod of respect, acknowledging the people who made these cars what they are is welcomed IMHO :cool:
 

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When taken as a whole the engine is actually quite a small part of what makes the car so great.
The engine is by far the main part of these cars that make them great and unique.

It was a detuned racing engine designed by Cosworth for road use. That is what makes it special. The character is unlike any other W201 (or other MB) engine for that matter! :)

You could buy regular W201s with sportline interiors, sportline wheels and suspension etc but only the 16v model came with a Cosworth engine :thumb: :cool:
 
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Brett - this is an age-old discussion that has surfaced many times before...:doh: :eek:

But...The heart and soul of a 2.3/2.5-16 is in the cylinder head design. It's unique to these cars and gives them the character that they display from the moment you turn the key right up to 7k+ RPM when driving them.

Bosch made parts for all W201s, many other MBs and millions of other cars - even to this day. Cosworth are special.

You don't have to stick badges on these cars to that effect. But a nod of respect, acknowledging the people who made these cars what they are is welcomed IMHO :cool:
You are right and there was a design brief and the engine was designed and built to run in a certain motorsport division and it probably would have been easier and cheaper for merc to bung a whacking great straight 6 in. It would have been faster no doubt but would it have the soul ???


In all honesty it does irk me more about the Astra GTE not being called a Cosworth than the merc being called a Cosworth. I know the answer why the Astra was never called a Cosworth, its all down to the Ford/Vauxhall thing and obviously the Merc was in a completely different league and market sector
 

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The engine is by far the main part of these cars that make them great and unique.

It was a detuned racing engine designed by Cosworth for road use. That is what makes it special. The character is unlike any other W201 (or other MB) engine for that matter! :)

You could buy regular W201s with sportline interiors, sportline wheels and suspension etc but only the 16v model came with a Cosworth engine :thumb: :cool:
Don't forget the dogleg Getrag & LSD. And the lap timer too :D All part of the appeal. Of course you are correct the engine is the key.
 

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You are right and there was a design brief and the engine was designed and built to run in a certain motorsport division and it probably would have been easier and cheaper for merc to bung a whacking great straight 6 in. It would have been faster no doubt but would it have the soul ???


In all honesty it does irk me more about the Astra GTE not being called a Cosworth than the merc being called a Cosworth. I know the answer why the Astra was never called a Cosworth, its all down to the Ford/Vauxhall thing and obviously the Merc was in a completely different league and market sector
We only got the 16v 'Cosworth' 190E and later Evolution models because MB wanted to compete in Motorsport.

Wasn't the 2.0 16v engine used by Vauxhall in the Astra fitted to loads of other models and not just a Motorsport special?

Not quite the same IMHO - but yep an acknowledgement to Cosworth for their work is still ok I reckon :)
 

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Don't forget the dogleg Getrag & LSD. And the lap timer too :D All part of the appeal. Of course you are correct the engine is the key.
Getrag boxes were also found in models other than the 190E 16v ;)

Even BMW used a similar box in the 'M' cars :)

Likewise there's other MB models with a LSD or ASD fitted.

Maybe you are onto something with the infamous VDO stopwatch though :D
 

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Ah, I thought you were specifically comparing the 16V's to 190's in general.
 
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poormansporsche

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Wasn't the 2.0 16v engine used by Vauxhall in the Astra fitted to loads of other models and not just a Motorsport special?

Not quite the same IMHO - but yep an acknowledgement to Cosworth for their work is still ok I reckon :)

Yep not really a motorsport engine but a head designed by Cosworth no different in principle to the merc



Anyways I know its been discussed loads of times and more often and not its "Why?" Cosworth and my thread is more "Should It?"

and its seems the general concensus is yes it should :)

So never mind we cant all agree all the time ! Its just a silly thing that bothers me but if it doesnt bother anyone else then no matter !
 

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