I miss petrol

[Paddcomp]

Having had my current hire car for a few days I realise how much I miss petrol engines, after 8 years of diesels.

Although it's a Hyundai, it has a 3.8l V6 with an 8 speed auto box. The best part is it produces 333bhp. It is so smooth that I can't tell if it's running or not at idle, it pulls well during normal driving with the box keeping it below 2,000rpm. That is until you floor it, when you get a lovely growl from the twin exhausts and the speedo moves up the numbers faster, much faster

Downside is 20mpg, with 25 on a run. I can live with that, or can I?

 

[Deleted member 65149]

Of course you can live with the higher fuel consumption. If we weren't willing to pay a little extra for any of the things that bring us pure joy then the world would be a very sad place.

You'd got used to the inferior quality and refinement offered by a diesel engine. But now that you've been reminded just how much better a petrol engine is, you have to decide for yourself what's important to you. If your car is just for getting from A to B then stay with diesel. If you appreciate the finer things in life then you know you'll have to return to the fold.

 

[G.P]

If your car is just for getting from A to B then stay with diesel.

Or if you do less than 20k/year...

 

[Borys]

Yep I miss petrol too
20mpg its actually not that bad for the ponies you have there

 

[peter49]

My C320 CDI is powerful, fast, quiet, growls (on request) and returns 43 m/g overall.

 

[mirras]

My C320 CDI is powerful, fast, quiet, growls (on request) and returns 43 m/g overall.

I'll second that view ( 30-40mpg in my s320 ) it isn't as much cost as range that impresses me, fast enough, pulls like a train and up to 800 miles, yes 800, on a tank. Petrol is lovely but diesel wins for me.... for now.

 

[Borys]

I'll second that view ( 30-40mpg in my s320 ) it isn't as much cost as range that impresses me, fast enough, pulls like a train and up to 800 miles, yes 800, on a tank. Petrol is lovely but diesel wins for me.... for now.

S class is the daddy, w221 is my dream car but out of budget range
I have 300c at the moment with the same engine as the S and not really impressed with it, should have get a HEMI

 

[Dryce]

You'd got used to the inferior quality and refinement offered by a diesel engine.

I think this is worth bearing in mind when people report how good modern diesels are.

They are good. But compared side by side with a V6 or inline 6 petrol at urban speeds and idle (though auto stop/start is a sort of leveller!) there is a noticeable difference in refinement - even after the diesel has warmed up.

OTOH modern performance turbo diesel + modern auto gearbox has its own compensations.

 

[peter49]

I think this is worth bearing in mind when people report how good modern diesels are.

They are good. But compared side by side with a V6 or inline 6 petrol at urban speeds and idle (though auto stop/start is a sort of leveller!) there is a noticeable difference in refinement - even after the diesel has warmed up.

OTOH modern performance turbo diesel + modern auto gearbox has its own compensations.

I drive my brothers S500 from time to time and find it no better than my 320 CDI on performance or comfort ie; quiet, but it is eye watering at the pumps!
In my opinion, refinement comes from the six cylinders rather than four. It is many years since I've run less than a 6 pot engine (petrol or diesel) with the exception of my previous CLK 270 CDI which had 5 cylinders. Anything less than 6 cylinders on a diesel is utility level really IMHO.

 

[SavMan]

Is that such a thing as a fast diesel

Don't get me wrong I'm not a diesel hater but surely there are only quick diesels not fast ones.
There must be more than a 100 car models that have accelerated 0-60 in under 4 secs but how many diesels

 

[Dryce]

In my opinion, refinement comes from the six cylinders rather than four.

My last car was a V6 petrol, SMWBO drives an 6-pot petrol. The experience of switching from day to day between 6 pot petrol and 6 pot diesel leave no doubt about the refinement of the petrol engine over the diesel.

Using the diesel out of the city there isn't much difference - but in urban traffic the diesel is .... well a diesel.

 

[Charles Morgan]

I enjoy the refinement of my Alpina straight six, the lovely noise when revved, which you can do to a good 7000rpm and the creaminess of the power delivery.

I enjoy the torque of the 210 320cdi shoving it along, with low rev refinement and economy.

Perhaps it would be different if one or other wasn't a straight six, but both are very good fun in different ways.

 

[SavMan]

Is that such a thing as a fast diesel

Don't get me wrong I'm not a diesel hater but surely there are only quick diesels not fast ones.
There must be more than a 100 car models that have accelerated 0-60 in under 4 secs but how many diesels

Not many of those same 100 models though would give you a 300 mile range never mind 700-800

 

[Dryce]

There must be more than a 100 car models that have accelerated 0-60 in under 4 secs but how many diesels

The simple reason for that is that performance diesels top out at about 3L and are stuck in large cars.

If MB chose to produce C50 CDI or BMW made a 4.4L diesel M5 we'd see those sort of numbers.

As for quick. There is an issue of usability. The diesel mated with an auto box gets undramatically quick starts with no launch control. The engine doesn't have to be kept stoked to exploit traffic. That's one of the reasons I suspect that the MB E320 works so well in the real world.

 

[SavMan]

The simple reason for that is that performance diesels top out at about 3L and are stuck in large cars.

If MB chose to produce C50 CDI or BMW made a 4.4L diesel M5 we'd see those sort of numbers.

As for quick. There is an issue of usability. The diesel mated with an auto box gets undramatically quick starts with no launch control. The engine doesn't have to be kept stoked to exploit traffic. That's one of the reasons I suspect that the MB E320 works so well in the real world.

But at the same time truly fast petrol cars that are released now are sub 3 secs.

 

[developer]

I miss the rev range of a petrol - as a biker, having it all end at 4250rpm is a bit disappointing - a v8 is still calling me.

However, there's no doubt that a performance diesel mid range is great fun at a reasonable cost.

My chipped E320 produces 50% more torque than an M3 .

 

[Charles Morgan]

Dragging the bodies around needs a bit more oomph.

You need a straight six if you want to rev. Many V8s are like diesels without the economy or taxi overtones.

 

[Dryce]

But at the same time truly fast petrol cars that are released now are sub 3 secs.

So what?

Hardly any of them are produced and hardly any of them are affordable and in the real world hardly any of them clock up decent mileages.

The market is a bit distorted. The Europeans have a prediliction with diesel over petrol compared with the US. And in the supercar market tradition is as much a driver as technogy. That means that the market for sub-4s cars is driven by petrol simply because ... it is.

As to what can actually be done with petrol vs diesel - BMW sell performance 3L twin scroll turbocharged petrol alongside 3L twin turbocharged diesel. Performance figures? Pretty much identical.

 

[Dryce]

You need a straight six if you want to rev. Many V8s are like diesels without the economy or taxi overtones.

Depends on what the design objectives are of the V8 and whether it's going into a SUV, muscle car, or a mid-engine sports car or racing car.

Motorcycles seem to rev quite well with inline-4s and formula 1 cars seemed to rev quite well with V8s and V10s over the years.

 

[SavMan]

So what?

Hardly any of them are produced and hardly any of them are affordable and in the real world hardly any of them clock up decent mileages.

The market is a bit distorted. The Europeans have a prediliction with diesel over petrol compared with the US. And in the supercar market tradition is as much a driver as technogy. That means that the market for sub-4s cars is driven by petrol simply because ... it is.

As to what can actually be done with petrol vs diesel - BMW sell performance 3L twin scroll turbocharged petrol alongside 3L twin turbocharged diesel. Performance figures? Pretty much identical.

There are still no fast diesels in that list, simple fact. Again don't get me wrong I don't have an issue with either fuel but facts are facts. There may be quick diesels out there but there are currently no fast ones.