ICE cars given 5 year reprieve

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It was reported in the media that the Italian bus driver might have fallen ill at the wheel. A case for driverless public transport?
 
As has been noted, many times, EVs are intrinsically more reliable, and “therefore cheaper to run” than ICE vehicles because there’s less to go wrong in their drivetrain.

On the other hand, how often do we have problems with the engine and gearbox?

Police forced to run malfunctioning electric car off the road

'I was kidnapped by my runaway electric car' - BBC News

Driver error, cruise control? Who knows ? My money would be an idiot at the controls initiating some kind of system conflict, but that’s purely a guess. Bottom line: such issues need to be managed.
 
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Issues with cars - even fires - very rarely hit the news. There are many more than we realise, we just don't hear about them because they new not particularly newsworthy.

Not so with EVs, every single malfunction or fire will be all over social media, the traditional press, and the subject of at least three 45 minute YouTube videos by a miserable Australian.
 
Occasionally:

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That’s a point . What race pursuit cars have the police invested in?

We know BMW 5’s caught fire because of their peculiar racing habits, even though the public don’t have that problem at all, as they put 200k on their 5’s as a matter of routine. Which EV’s would suit the typical Rozzer pursuit team ?
 
Occasionally:

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BTW, more common is the 550i which has had appalling reliability and frequent replacement of both gearbox and engine. Appalling thing but very rare in the uK, thank God.
 
Perhaps the greatest capability autonomous cars will bring to the table will be their ability to flee when an EV next to them self immolates...

I don't dispute that EV fires are over-reported but it is still an issue that has to be dealt with - the insurance of EVs debacle being part of that. Given that they are a nightmare to extinguish can't they have a container (like an inverted 'half height' - think squared off skip) dropped over them to contain the worst? If so, then easily transportable by road and in say, ships' holds, mounted on a suspended delivery mechanism ready to be positioned and dropped on any EV that is alight.
 
That’s a point . What race pursuit cars have the police invested in?

We know BMW 5’s caught fire because of their peculiar racing habits, even though the public don’t have that problem at all, as they put 200k on their 5’s as a matter of routine. Which EV’s would suit the typical Rozzer pursuit team ?

The particular issue here appears to be high mileage, combined with applying full throttle after a long period of idling, which is not how most of the public use their cars.

And ultimately, in spite of the particular circumstances, having 6-7L of oil stored inches away from a 400-500°C exhaust manifold will never be 'safe'.

It's worth noting, BTW, that the Italian media reported that firefighters initially prevented rescuers from approaching the bus because they incorrectly assumed it was running on Methanol and they were concerned of an imminent explosion.
 
The particular issue here appears to be high mileage, combined with applying full throttle after a long period of idling, which is not how most of the public use their cars.

And ultimately, in spite of the particular circumstances, having 6-7L of oil stored inches away from a 400-500°C exhaust manifold will never be 'safe'.

It's worth noting, BTW, that the Italian media reported that firefighters initially prevented rescuers from approaching the bus because they incorrectly assumed it was running on Methanol and they were concerned of an imminent explosion.
Hi , so how are the BMWs driven Germany by the general public ?
 
The same as everywhere else, I imagine?
Hi , but in Germany I would suggest much quicker because a number of German motorways are derestricted.

I take the point that the blue light brigade drive them much quicker but we are talking about the " Ultimate Driving Machine "
 
Hi , but in Germany I would suggest much quicker because a number of German motorways are derestricted.

I take the point that the blue light brigade drive them much quicker but we are talking about the " Ultimate Driving Machine "

The issue was full throttle after a long period of idling, apparently.
 
The issue was full throttle after a long period of idling, apparently.
Hi , thank you for your answer.

Why do Police cars tick over for hours on end while waiting for customers.

In the United States many Police cars have an hour timer to record hours idling.

Really Green.
 
Hi , thank you for your answer.

Why do Police cars tick over for hours on end while waiting for customers.

In the United States many Police cars have an hour timer to record hours idling.

Really Green.

I'm guessing is to charge the many batteries they have in their cars, especially when the car is left with the blue lights on. Any ex-coppers on here that can comment?
 
A few pages back there was a discussion of relative insurance costs for EV's vs ICE cars. This article gives a good explanation of the reasons why some insurers are refusing to cover EV's at all, and why premiums have been rising faster for EV's than for ICE cars:


For the benefit of those who can't get past the paywall, the gist of it as described by Jonathan Hewett, chief executive of Thatcham Research (the motor insurers’ automotive research centre), is a lack of “insight and understanding” about the cost of repairing damaged electric car batteries. “The challenge is that we have no way of understanding whether the battery has been compromised or damaged in any way [as a result of a collision]". “What we’re struggling to understand at the moment is how we approach that diagnostic technique."

On a more positive (no pun intended) note, he added that once actuaries had the tools needed to better understand the risks of insuring electric cars, premiums would eventually begin to level out and match those of petrol and diesel cars.
 
A few pages back there was a discussion of relative insurance costs for EV's vs ICE cars. This article gives a good explanation of the reasons why some insurers are refusing to cover EV's at all, and why premiums have been rising faster for EV's than for ICE cars:


For the benefit of those who can't get past the paywall, the gist of it as described by Jonathan Hewett, chief executive of Thatcham Research (the motor insurers’ automotive research centre), is a lack of “insight and understanding” about the cost of repairing damaged electric car batteries. “The challenge is that we have no way of understanding whether the battery has been compromised or damaged in any way [as a result of a collision]". “What we’re struggling to understand at the moment is how we approach that diagnostic technique."

On a more positive (no pun intended) note, he added that once actuaries had the tools needed to better understand the risks of insuring electric cars, premiums would eventually begin to level out and match those of petrol and diesel cars.

'Mr Hewett said: “The challenge is that we have no way of understanding whether the battery has been compromised or damaged in any way." '

Obviously, if they need to authorise a new battery pack after every crash, EVs will be written off left right and centre.

' “What we’re struggling to understand at the moment is how we approach that diagnostic technique." '

Clearly, insurers will need to find away to diagnose whether a battery pack actually needs replacing or not, rather than just assuming that it does, as a precaution.
 
For the benefit of those who can't get past the paywall,


Paywalls like the telegraph have become much smarter recently. At one time you only needed to press esc after the page loaded or type cache: immediately in front of the URL. Neither of those work anymore but if you only want occasional access there is another way of viewing a cached or archived page which is not too much trouble and my understanding is that it is legal to access archived paywall pages or I wouldn't be writing about it here.

Web pages are routinely archived by the Wayback machine, Google and others. You can add an extension to your browser which will access an archived version of a paywalled page. The "Archive page" browser extension puts a button on your toolbar. You click on this button after a paywalled page has been loaded and it will automatically load an archived version of the page in a new tab. There are downsides such as the page may not be available immediately after a new page has been posted and it may be minutes or hours out of date but this rarely matters. Some active content on a web page such as polling or videos may also not work.

This "archive page" extension works on chrome based browsers but I'm sure there are others available.
 
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For the benefit of those who can't get past the paywall,
Here's the text (excluding a couple of useless graphics). It's worth reiterating that Thatcham Research is a serious insurance research centre, funded by members of the Industry, not some Micky Mouse Talking Head, like some "experts" misquoted by the popular press to get a few more clicks.


Electric cars risk becoming effectively uninsurable as analysts struggle to put a price on battery repairs, the researcher for the car insurance industry has said.

Jonathan Hewett, chief executive of Thatcham Research, the motor insurers’ automotive research centre, said a lack of “insight and understanding” about the cost of repairing damaged electric car batteries was pushing up premiums and resulting in some providers declining to provide cover altogether.

Electric cars can be particularly expensive to repair, costing around a quarter more to fix on average than a petrol or diesel vehicle. Experts have previously warned electric vehicles are being written off after minor bumps because of the cost and complexity of fixing their batteries.

Mr Hewett said: “The challenge is that we have no way of understanding whether the battery has been compromised or damaged in any way.

The threat of thermal runaway means that a catastrophic fire can take place if the cells of the battery have been damaged in a collision.

“What we’re struggling to understand at the moment is how we approach that diagnostic technique.

“It’s like a doctor trying to understand what’s wrong with you without any notes or an X-ray.”

John Lewis Financial Services stopped providing car insurance for electric cars last month for new and existing customers, as its underwriter Covéa analysed risks and costs.

Aviva removed insurance products for the Tesla Model Y earlier this year before restoring them several months later.

Vehicle repair costs rose 33pc over the first quarter of 2023 compared to 2022, helping to push annual premiums to record highs, according to the Association of British Insurers.

Average electric car insurance costs rose 72pc in the year to September, compared to 29pc for petrol and diesel models, according to Confused.com.

Mr Hewett said premiums would eventually begin to level out and match those of petrol and diesel cars once actuaries had the tools needed to better understand the risks of insuring electric cars, saying the issue would likely be “short term”.

However, he added: “The battery is an extremely expensive component of an electric vehicle and until we find efficient ways of dealing with it we have the challenge of high premiums for electric vehicles, which nobody wants.”

Some customers are now being quoted over £100 a week to insure their electric vehicles, with others reporting premiums doubling or tripling compared to a year before.

One reason attributed to the steep rise in the cost of electric car repairs stems from recommendations for electric cars to be kept 50ft apart in repair yards over fears they might explode.

Government guidelines suggest electric vehicles with damaged batteries should be “quarantined” from other cars due to the risk of battery fires, which are typically harder to put out than fires in petrol or diesel cars.

The London Fire Brigade has warned that fires involving lithium batteries are the fastest-growing fire risk in London, after it was called out to 87 e-bike and 29 e-scooter fires in 2022.

Paris’s transport operator withdrew 149 electric buses from operation last year after two ignited on separate occasions.

The website Tesla-Fire.com lists 25 reports of Teslas catching fire globally since the beginning of 2023.

Thatcham Research said insurers would need to spend an additional £900m a year on quarantine facilities for damaged cars as a result of the safety measures by 2035, as more battery-powered vehicles take to the roads, with the changes forecast to add £20 a year onto all car insurance premiums.

Conservative MP Greg Smith, who sits on the Commons transport committee, said: “[The lack of battery diagnostics] is yet another reason why electric vehicles aren’t remotely suitable for the mass market yet and why we should be looking to other technologies, like synthetic fuels and hydrogen, that will be more reliable and friendly to the planet.”
 

Not before 2027, though.......
 

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