ICE cars given 5 year reprieve

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Not before 2027, though.......

Toyota have been smart in sticking with what they know in reliable and proven hybrid cars and not wasting too much effort on soon to be surpassed first generation batteries and EVs. For me the most welcome vision that Toyota have is the desire and intent to build "lighter, less complicated cars that have fewer components". That has to be the future if EV's are to make much impact on life cycle emissions. Most of the automotive manufacturers are going in the opposite direction at the moment with EV's approaching 3 tonnes in some cases. Anyone who virtue signals by driving a 3 tonne EV and thinks they are saving the planet is sadly deluded. We are going to have to do a lot better than that.
 
Toyota have been smart in sticking with what they know in reliable and proven hybrid cars and not wasting too much effort on soon to be surpassed first generation batteries and EVs. For me the most welcome vision that Toyota have is the desire and intent to build "lighter, less complicated cars that have fewer components". That has to be the future if EV's are to make much impact on life cycle emissions. Most of the automotive manufacturers are going in the opposite direction at the moment with EV's approaching 3 tonnes in some cases. Anyone who virtue signals by driving a 3 tonne EV and thinks they are saving the planet is sadly deluded. We are going to have to do a lot better than that.

Current EVs are already "lighter, less complicated cars that have fewer components" than ICE cars - apart for the battery pack, obviously.

If Toyota manage to further improve on that, then this has the potential of revolutionising the car market - we'll see very light, very simple, and very lightweight cars - and potentially also very cheap due to obvious reasons.
 
Do you live in the real world (meant light heartedly :) ). Nowhere I park, apart from home as I'm one of the lucky ones that could charge at home if i went EV, has the services to charge a car......so that's work, super market etc etc. So mostly, if I was not a driveway charger, I would indeed have to drive out of my way to charge....and where I live much further than to the petrol station of which I have good choice locally. And it will only get worse as more EVs sell. Imagine when car parks are full of EVs....charging that is as easy and convenient as filling an ICE will be game changer though.....and I'm sure with advances like Toyota are making it wont be long. But as a diehard its all irrelevant to me....ICE til I die (or until I cant afford it, whichever comes first!!). 10 of millions cant charge on their non existent drive or in the street at night.
TBH looking at your list of great cars I'm surprised you care about EVs either!.....Apart from the ability to accelerate very fast they are all so B-O-R-I-N-G!.....and to add to the excitement most of them look boring to.....sadly the Merc EVs lead the way in dull styling.....whoever thought an MG EV would look cooler than a Mercedes Benz!!!??....the only exception seems to be the Audi GT E tron....a great looking car, EV or not....and basically a Taycan underneath.
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Also where is the electricity going to come from?
The UK is near grid capacity all ready only 20% of energy consumption is electricity and they are planning to move the other 80% to electricity
Wind has an overall efficiency around 30% and solar around 15 - 20% where is the electricity going to come from?
 
Not an issue...even if every car was electric tomorrow (and they won't be for decades) the grid could cope....

 
Also where is the electricity going to come from?
The UK is near grid capacity all ready only 20% of energy consumption is electricity and they are planning to move the other 80% to electricity
Wind has an overall efficiency around 30% and solar around 15 - 20% where is the electricity going to come from?
We’ve been hatching a plan for that. We’re going to wait until you go out and we’re all going to pop around to your place and plug our EVs into that electrical socket you use for the outside Christmas lights. We’ll use a four gang extension block though, so we can do four cars at a time, and we’re long gone by the time you get back 👀
 
Not an issue...even if every car was electric tomorrow (and they won't be for decades) the grid could cope....



National Grid may be able to generate sufficient electricity but they are not able to speak for the capacity of the whole of the electricity distribution network all the way to every customer. National Grid owns 300 large high voltage substations while there are over 400,000 substations in total. Your local Electricity distribution company runs the substations that supply individual consumers and it is some of these that are likely to be unable to meet the increase in demand resulting from EV charging and heat pumps.

An average house currently uses 2700 KWh per year

A heat pump will add 4000 KWh per year

Home charging one EV will add 2-3000 KWh per year

So very roughly we are in the long term going to see houses tripling their electricity consumption or more and many local substations will need upgrading to cope with that demand.
 
An average house currently uses 2700 KWh per year

A heat pump will add 4000 KWh per year

Home charging one EV will add 2-3000 KWh per year

So very roughly we are in the long term going to see houses tripling their electricity consumption or more and many local substations will need upgrading to cope with that demand.
And house building on a tremendous scale everywhere you look
 
So very roughly we are in the long term going to see houses tripling their electricity consumption or more and many local substations will need upgrading to cope with that demand.
That’s just not the case. Substations have always been part of a rolling upgrade programme and generators/suppliers are not identifying them as a specific RAG risk to EV/heat pump use. What’s your source?
 
That’s just not the case. Substations have always been part of a rolling upgrade programme and generators/suppliers are not identifying them as a specific RAG risk to EV/heat pump use. What’s your source?


Well of course substations are being upgraded, I have experience of making the financial case for and building many new substations. The point is that National Grid would have us believe nothing needs doing to meet the increased electricity demand and that can't be true of the wider distribution network . How many times have we read that lack of supply capacity is holding up the installation of public EV chargers.

On domestic housing here was a specific case in Scotland where a house builder was required to install heat pumps and EV chargers. To do both was going to increase the installed electricity supply for a new housing estate from 8 MW to 35 MW (close enough to my claim that demand would triple) The builders have been told they can only have 15 MW and as a result can only build half as many houses. A clear case that the distribution network is not currently able to cope. That supply restriction can't just have been at local substation level as that could have been easily fixed. There must have been supply problems back up at the primary substation level or beyond.

The distribution network will get there eventually but for National Grid to say there are no capacity problems is nonsense.

SNP warned house-building will grind to halt over gas boiler ban
 
Well of course substations are being upgraded, I have experience of making the financial case for and building many new substations. The point is that National Grid would have us believe nothing needs doing to meet the increased electricity demand and that can't be true of the wider distribution network . How many times have we read that lack of supply capacity is holding up the installation of public EV chargers.

On domestic housing here was a specific case in Scotland where a house builder was required to install heat pumps and EV chargers. To do both was going to increase the installed electricity supply for a new housing estate from 8 MW to 35 MW (close enough to my claim that demand would triple) The builders have been told they can only have 15 MW and as a result can only build half as many houses. A clear case that the distribution network is not currently able to cope. That supply restriction can't just have been at local substation level as that could have been easily fixed. There must have been supply problems back up at the primary substation level or beyond.

The distribution network will get there eventually but for National Grid to say there are no capacity problems is nonsense.

SNP warned house-building will grind to halt over gas boiler ban
There are other reports of electricity infrastructure not being rolled out to slowly for many projects.
 
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Not an issue...even if every car was electric tomorrow (and they won't be for decades) the grid could cope....

This is not a universal opinion
 
True....but if anyone should know it's the National grid.....
 
True....but if anyone should know it's the National grid.....


Which is why National Grid has just announced the need to spend £19bn to cope with the demands of net zero. This has been my point all along, claiming they can generate sufficient electricity for EV's and heat pumps is one thing but getting it to the customer is another and they are not able to do that at the moment without substantial upgrades to the distribution system.

My earlier suggestion that electricity demand will increase 3 fold seems to have been conservative. National Grid are saying 4 fold (20% to 80% of total energy transmitted).

National Grid to spend up to £19bn to ‘rewire’ Britain for net zero​

Networks of new cables needed to power shift to heat pumps and electric cars

National Grid is to spend up to £19bn on new pylons and transmission systems across the countryside as it “rewires the nation” for the net zero era, the company has said.

John Pettigrew, National Grid’s chief executive, said the money would be spent upgrading and expanding the UK’s creaking power transmission system to ensure it is ready for the surge in demand as the country shifts to net zero.
National Grid predicts its wires will carry up to 80pc of the total energy used by UK households by 2050, compared with just 20pc now.
The huge increase will come as gas for heating homes and petrol or diesel for transport will be almost entirely replaced by electricity.
Networks of new cables are needed to power the heat pumps destined to replace Britain’s 25 million domestic gas boilers and the electric vehicles that will replace the 32 million petrol and diesel vehicles on Britain’s roads.

National Grid to spend up to £19bn to ‘rewire’ Britain for net zero
 
Which is why National Grid has just announced the need to spend £19bn to cope with the demands of net zero. This has been my point all along, claiming they can generate sufficient electricity for EV's and heat pumps is one thing but getting it to the customer is another and they are not able to do that at the moment without substantial upgrades to the distribution system.

My earlier suggestion that electricity demand will increase 3 fold seems to have been conservative. National Grid are saying 4 fold (20% to 80% of total energy transmitted).

National Grid to spend up to £19bn to ‘rewire’ Britain for net zero​

Networks of new cables needed to power shift to heat pumps and electric cars

National Grid is to spend up to £19bn on new pylons and transmission systems across the countryside as it “rewires the nation” for the net zero era, the company has said.

John Pettigrew, National Grid’s chief executive, said the money would be spent upgrading and expanding the UK’s creaking power transmission system to ensure it is ready for the surge in demand as the country shifts to net zero.
National Grid predicts its wires will carry up to 80pc of the total energy used by UK households by 2050, compared with just 20pc now.
The huge increase will come as gas for heating homes and petrol or diesel for transport will be almost entirely replaced by electricity.
Networks of new cables are needed to power the heat pumps destined to replace Britain’s 25 million domestic gas boilers and the electric vehicles that will replace the 32 million petrol and diesel vehicles on Britain’s roads.

National Grid to spend up to £19bn to ‘rewire’ Britain for net zero

"...electric vehicles that will replace the 32 million petrol and diesel vehicles on Britain’s roads."

When is this complete transformation due to be achieved? That's well beyond the 'net zero' target that is due by 2050.

So £19bn over how many years? 25 years? 50 years?
 
"...electric vehicles that will replace the 32 million petrol and diesel vehicles on Britain’s roads."

When is this complete transformation due to be achieved? That's well beyond the 'net zero' target that is due by 2050.

So £19bn over how many years? 25 years? 50 years?
£19bn grabs attention and headlines but if it’s 19bn over several decades as you have suggested then how much more is it than the National Grid would have to spend anyway on repairs, maintenance, scheduled replacement and expansion due to natural growth over the same time frame?

Spending nothing is not an option for even if the whole idea of net zero was scrapped tomorrow.
 
Hi , don't forget an electric car when fully charged it is extra capacity for the National Grid as storage which they no doubt can drain you EV so in the morning your car could have no charge in the battery.
 
I cant imagine they could legally do that...............
 
Well of course national Grid could drain your EV battery if you agreed to it and the correct equipment was in place but it would be a potentially foolish thing to agree to if you wanted the battery to have as long a life as possible. Doing this overnight doesn't make any sense though as generally they already have enough and wouldn't want more. Peak hours are between 4pm and 7pm so that would be the time they might want to buy your electricity. If you charged at low rates overnight and sold it back to them between 4pm and 7pm at a higher rate then it might financially compensate for the battery life degradation.
 

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