ICE cars given 5 year reprieve

[ALFAitalia]

Of course they will sell it to you at a low price and buy it back at a higher price a few hours later....what a good business model that would be!!

 

[markjay]

Well of course national Grid could drain your EV battery if you agreed to it and the correct equipment was in place...

Why spoil a good conspiracy theory...?

 

[Boyband]

Hi , well only time will tell !

 

[Boyband]

Hi , Portugal has for the last 6 days run on renewable energy !

 

[Boyband]

Of course they will sell it to you at a low price and buy it back at a higher price a few hours later....what a good business model that would be!!

Hi , It exists

Why spoil a good conspiracy theory...?

 

[Boyband]

I cant imagine they could legally do that...............

Hi , hope you are correct in your statement re legally issues but no doubt its covered in terms and conditions.

 

[markjay]

Hi , It exists

Yes, but:

Well of course national Grid could drain your EV battery if you agreed to it and the correct equipment was in place....

So not quite this:

Hi , don't forget an electric car when fully charged it is extra capacity for the National Grid as storage which they no doubt can drain you EV so in the morning your car could have no charge in the battery.

 

[zipdip]

Well I think ICE cars will be around for many years yet,we are fast getting to a standoff with some car makers saying EV is the way forward and others say no thanks,a bit like members on here,some have joined the cult of EV others have said EV's are crazy,interesting that the CEO of RTZ said there is not enough Lithium in the world to supply EV cars,I think we would all like a world with less pollution but EV cars will not bring that about.
There are some very clever people on this forum and some are in the EV camp,while I know I am not clever but I have common sense and the problems faced by EV's are many and varied and they are all rising to the surface as time goes on,having worked for a multi national company we had a saying when one faction kept pressing a idea that had been found to be wrong,and that was "stop looking up a dead horses ****" for me EV 's are dead for any sane car driver,cost,depreciation,charging chaos,range,repairs,insurance,battery cost and fires.
I just watched two guys have a sort of race from scotland to cornwall one in a old BMW320 and the other in a Porsche Taycan on You Tube ,the one positive thing for the Taycan is that it proved that that car can drive through flood water without catching fire,after that well it was a disaster for the driver of the Taycan,those vlogs highlighted everything people have said about long distance EV driving.
As a bystander in all this I am watching governments and car companies starting to retreat on EV's of course you would never know it from whats said or written if you do not have the latest code book for fighting a rear guard action from a position of the highest green credentials

 

[markjay]

Depends who you're asking:

https://driveelectric.org.nz/will-the-world-run-out-of-lithium/#:~:text=While%20the%20question%20of%20the,out%20of%20this%20vital%20resource.

Also, Lithium-Ion is the name given to the technology, but the Li-ion batteries mostly contain Iron or Nickel and very little Lithium, so you don't need very much if it:

Electric car battery weight explained | EVBox

Learn everything about the weight of an electric car battery, discover what makes it so heavy and find out if there are implications for the driver.

www.google.com

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Well I think ICE cars will be around for many years yet,

33 million ICE vehicles still in the UK, with only 1 million EV's so far.
Annual sales of all vehicles barely at 1.5 million. (Many of which are heavily used and thrown away within a decade)

Yes, it's going to be a very long time before we run out of ICE vehicles.

Let alone the whooshing sound as Governments slide their deadlines back, as they realise that half the nations world aren't playing their game, and many of their own voters "aren't on board" with the concept.

 

[davymead]

it’s fast becoming obvious that net zero is basically an economic armageddon, and vehicle manufacturers have been manoeuvred to the front of the queue for financial meltdown. Toyota has in the last few days realised that pure EV production is pushing them to their demise (lookup their corporate debt) and the same is being said by Ford America.
Lots of ‘conjecture’ about the future, but it’s only ever about money after all.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

As humans, the vast majority of us naturally think of the future based upon what we know of the past. Relatively few people have the ability to genuinely imagine a realistic - and not extreme - future which is different from the present or past.

As us old duffers are replaced by bright young things, our reality of owning our own ICE powered car will fade away. I believe it won’t be black or white - EV or iCE - it will be an even richer mix of powertrain, shared use & ownership, and public transport.

The young choose to learn to drive later (if at all), and when they do they prefer not to pay outright. It’s often blamed upon the spiralling cost of car ownership by older generations as it fits our narrative of being priced off the road to remove our freedom.

Poppycock.

The young see a different future and the way they travel will be less about “owning” a fossil-fuel car, it will be about the destination. Whether we like it or not the future is theirs, not ours, and so they will decide on how that future will be, not us.

The naysayers will say that the young are weak imitations of their stoic forefathers, and that they have given in to progressive propaganda. Some will even blame the social elite controlling class and our future will be bleak in the hands of the young.

Blaming a bigger generic faceless and nameless entity is one of the ways that humans make sense of things which they feel unable to control. Religion entered the chat. In the 21st century powerful gods are replaced by powerful people.

EV and ICE will co-exist for many years. Government targets were never intended to be immovable deadlines. They are intended to stimulate change, in this case to enable a the right type of transport for a journey. A post of mine from some years ago.

In the short term, survival will be challenging for hire car companies, but in the long term their future is much brighter, as their business model is likely to be more popular in the future than it is today.

The future of the car according to many car manufacturers is “mobility“, one of those terms which could mean many things but in essence means a move away from car ownership and towards personal and seamless transport, using shared vehicles and integrated transport.

What does that really mean? For some, including those outside of large towns and cities, it might mean owning a small electric or hydrogen powered vehicle which is used for the vast majority of short distance journeys, but which would be used for part of longer journeys but not all the way to the destination, switching to other forms of transport for very long distances or upon reaching urban areas. Or rather than owning a car, even leasing a car, maybe renting or even subscribing to use a variety of shared vehicles which might be more appropriate for whole or part journeys, eg larger vehicles or even an electric bike.

For those who live in large towns and cities then they may not even own (or rent) a car of their own. It may be that they use shared cars as part of some kind of subscription or pay per use scheme, or use driverless autonomous shared cars (ie a taxi without a driver) to get to their connection with to the next leg of their journey.

In many ways it’s not really any different to what we have been building over the last century, a network of different transport options to suit the journey and personal situation. The only thing that’s really changing is the mindset shift from owning a car and driving it from the start to the end of a journey, to using personal vehicle as part of an integrated transport system.

A hire car business, is really a shared car business. If I was Hertz I would be setting up a subscription type service before the car manufacturers do. Even if it doesn’t take off for a while, the cars can be used for traditional hires, the overheads for operating their subscription model would be modest compared to the cost of running their hire car business.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

As humans, the vast majority of us naturally think of the future based upon what we know of the past. Relatively few people have the ability to genuinely imagine a realistic - and not extreme - future which is different from the present or past.

As us old duffers are replaced by bright young things, our reality of owning our own ICE powered car will fade away. I believe it won’t be black or white - EV or iCE - it will be an even richer mix of powertrain, shared use & ownership, and public transport.

The young choose to learn to drive later (if at all), and when they do they prefer not to pay outright. It’s often blamed upon the spiralling cost of car ownership by older generations as it fits our narrative of being priced off the road to remove our freedom.

Poppycock.

The young see a different future and the way they travel will be less about “owning” a fossil-fuel car, it will be about the destination. Whether we like it or not the future is theirs, not ours, and so they will decide on how that future will be, not us.

The naysayers will say that the young are weak imitations of their stoic forefathers, and that they have given in to progressive propaganda. Some will even blame the social elite controlling class and our future will be bleak in the hands of the young.

Blaming a bigger generic faceless and nameless entity is one of the ways that humans make sense of things which they feel unable to control. Religion entered the chat. In the 21st century powerful gods are replaced by powerful people.

EV and ICE will co-exist for many years. Government targets were never intended to be immovable deadlines. They are intended to stimulate change, in this case to enable a the right type of transport for a journey. A post of mine from some years ago.

Exactly, although I’d say “most” rather than the “vast majority.”

We got elbowed into diesel, and complied. (Well, you lot did)

We got elbowed into second cars, and now we’re being elbowed out.

We got elbowed into longer distance commuting, and now we’re being elbowed out. And now the young are being elbowed into City life.

We change our lives dramatically from generation to generation.

 

[markjay]

..We change our lives dramatically from generation to generation...

How true.

When I was young, 'having a discussion' meant going out and meeting someone in person...

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

How true.
When I was young, 'having a discussion' meant going out and meeting someone in person...

How true.
When I was young, "having Ugandan discussions" meant staying in and meeting someone in person.
These days it's just about Uganda.