ICE cars given 5 year reprieve

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Hi , if I was working an EV car would not be any use to me.

A company representative covers 30000 miles per year and must spend to many hours per week looking at charge points and not Infront of customers.

As a local transport need an EV makes sense but no for a representative.

If the sales rep did want an EV, then admittedly his/her choice will indeed be very much limited to Tesla only, as they currently have the charging network required to support this type of business use. The general charging network is still playing catch-up (there are currently only 24 Ionity ultrafast 350kW chargers in the whole of the UK).

With regard to driving non-stop... slavery has been abolished a long time ago and employees are entitled to breaks (required, even, in the case of driving), but a sales rep working on commission might be tempted to breach company policy and just push it and drive non-stop - the good news is that modern cars will have detailed journey logging (not just EVs) and such behaviour could easily be discouraged and lead to disciplinary action or even dismissal.

(I remember an episode of cops TV where a lorry drivers who was stopped on the hard shoulder on the motorway preferred to get a ticket than to move his lorry, because he reached the limit of his allowed driving hours and could face being sacked if the lorry's log didn't show at least a 20 minutes break - and so the penalty fine for stopping on the hard shoulder was his preferred option.... ).
 
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Hi , I do understand your point of view but it won't be long before Tesla's supremcy is crowned.

Correct me if I am wrong but have not Ford and one other car manufacture signed an agreement that they can use the Tesla's charging points.

The cost of car insurance will will remove many cars from the road and it would not suprise me if a future government only allowed one car to be registered to an address.
 
Hi , I do understand your point of view but it won't be long before Tesla's supremcy is crowned.

Correct me if I am wrong but have not Ford and one other car manufacture signed an agreement that they can use the Tesla's charging points.

This is what the Ford website says (dated May 2023):

"Starting early next year, Ford EV customers will have access to more than 12,000 Tesla Superchargers across the U.S. and Canada"

So it might take a while before we see it here, but it's certainly a positive development.


...it would not suprise me if a future government only allowed one car to be registered to an address.

That government would get my vote.

(Although, or a practical level, it will be difficult to enforce, with people who don't own cars possibility 'selling' their address to be used by others who wants to have more than one car)
 
What a completely unthought through reply...sorry but it is.

it would be impossible for us to have one car....as with many, many other families. My wife is a career and has to travel from one oldie to another. And I work 12.5 miles from home with no direct buses and 4 miles from the station. And I need to get out from work during the day to see customers.
Public transport is a joke unless you live in big cities......something that many city dwellers forget.
No political party that proposed that would get elected anyway.
 
Hi , I do understand your point of view but it won't be long before Tesla's supremcy is crowned.

Correct me if I am wrong but have not Ford and one other car manufacture signed an agreement that they can use the Tesla's charging points.

The cost of car insurance will will remove many cars from the road and it would not suprise me if a future government only allowed one car to be registered to an address.
Allowing one car per address isn't going to work. House shares/rented accommodation/... mean that its not going to work.
 
I really wouldn’t worry too much about the possibility of an enforced single car per address.
 
I really wouldn’t worry too much about the possibility of an enforced single car per address.

Are you suggesting that the entire notion is yet another OTT conspiracy theory about autocratic regimes...?
 
Hi , if I was working an EV car would not be any use to me.
A company representative covers 30000 miles per year and must spend to many hours per week looking at charge points and not Infront of customers.
As a local transport need an EV makes sense but no for a representative.
Not a clue. I started my career supporting people who routinely drove 40-50,000 miles a year.
They would be thrilled by the idea of starting each day with 330 miles range from home charging. Regardless of the cost saving.
Think about it.
 
It's interesting how prejudices play in this debate, without any reference to how these things are being used.
A high mileage company car driver will be forced into an EV by her employer. It's simply cheaper for employer and employee. No debate.

That the car is rubbish to drive is neither here nor there. Twas the same with the Marina, Cortina, Mondeo and so on. Cost reduction is key.
 
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Loads of the reps I deal with at work use EVs and have done for a while.....almost universally they dislike them and the infrastructure around them. There are a couple that like them.....but they are the Tesla users. I looks like Tesla drivers will only have a couple of models to choose from in the UK as the S and X models are ceasing production of RHD cars. I remember years ago Musk saying that building cars at all was a stop gap....his aim was to use the car as a showcase of what his batteries could do and then be the world EV battery supplier.....hes not said that for a while though. Once the big boys like VAG, FORD and the German big three start producing better cars than Musk at lower prices (lets face it quality wise Lada could do better) then I think Tesla will fade away.....too badly built and unreliable and too expensive to compete. I bet Musk cant believe how long its taking everyone else to catch up.....me too to be honest!
 
Loads of the reps I deal with at work use EVs and have done for a while.....almost universally they dislike them and the infrastructure around them. There are a couple that like them.....but they are the Tesla users. I looks like Tesla drivers will only have a couple of models to choose from in the UK as the S and X models are ceasing production of RHD cars. I remember years ago Musk saying that building cars at all was a stop gap....his aim was to use the car as a showcase of what his batteries could do and then be the world EV battery supplier.....hes not said that for a while though. Once the big boys like VAG, FORD and the German big three start producing better cars than Musk at lower prices (lets face it quality wise Lada could do better) then I think Tesla will fade away.....too badly built and unreliable and too expensive to compete. I bet Musk cant believe how long its taking everyone else to catch up.....me too to be honest!

The explanation I heard (from an investment banker) is that the reason that Tesla shares are valued so high compared to other car manufacturers, is that car manufacturers are in the business of running factories, which is seen by investors as a high-risk low-profit business, while Tesla shares are values as tech company shares (much like Microsoft, for example).

Tesla's value doesn't come from the cars they make, but from their IPR, in essence what they do is extensive R&D and software development, and there's an expectation that eventually they will license their tech to other car manufacturers (in the same way that Microsoft license Windows to laptop and PC manufacturers), and possibly even stop making cars altogether.

I am not suggesting that your comment regarding the batteries is incorrect, BTW just adding what I heard.
 
The explanation I heard (from an investment banker) is that the reason that Tesla shares are valued so high compared to other car manufacturers, is that car manufacturers are in the business of running factories, which is seen by investors as a high-risk low-profit business, while Tesla shares are values as tech company shares (much like Microsoft, for example).

Tesla's value doesn't come from the cars they make, but from their IPR, in essence what they do is extensive R&D and software development, and there's an expectation that eventually they will license their tech to other car manufacturers (in the same way that Microsoft license Windows to laptop and PC manufacturers), and possibly even stop making cars altogether.

I am not suggesting that your comment regarding the batteries is incorrect, BTW just adding what I heard.
Tesla stock is very much driven by US Retail sentiment in it - see chart below. (There's lot of commentary on this around).

Tesla's been THE Number One Retail stock for year now.

Price Earnings ratios give an indication of reasonable share prices.

Most car companies are - rightly - just into double digits. Toyota's around 11

Tesla's P/E has dropped massively: to 65 and its pricing continues to be very "news" driven. (It was between 200 and just under a thousand during 2020 and 2021)

The States, EU, UK and China give massive tax subsidies to EV (and battery) purchase and manufacture while ICE buyers and manufacturing pays a lot of taxes. As long as that continues, it's a licence to print money.





Screenshot 2023-10-03 at 14.53.10.png
 
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Tesla stock is very much driven by US Retail sentiment in it - see chart below. (There's lot of commentary on this around)

Price Earnings ratios give an indication of reasonable share prices.

Most car companies are - rightly - just into double digits. Toyota's around 11

Tesla's P/E has dropped massively: to 65. (It was between 200 and just under a thousand during 2020 and 2021)

The States, EU, UK and China give massive tax subsidies to EV (and battery) purchase and manufacture while ICE buyers and manufacturing pays a lot of taxes. As long as that continues, it's a licence to print money.





View attachment 147731

True, however Tesla'a share price was way OTT for many years, and long before the current EV subsidies.

This is what Elon Musk had to day about it:

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True, however Tesla'a share price was way OTT for many years, and long before the current EV subsidies.
This is what Elon Musk had to day about it:
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Understood, but we're well beyond that pre-2019 when Tesla's valuation was in the the tens of billions

A valuation of nearly a trillion is a completely different ballgame.

Not least because the Koreans and Japanese are intruding on Tesla's monopoly.

("A billion here, a billion there. Pretty soon it adds up to real money.")
 
Understood, but we're well beyond that pre-2019 when Tesla's valuation was in the the tens of billions

A valuation of nearly a trillion is a completely different ballgame.

Not least because the Koreans and Japanese are intruding on Tesla's monopoly.

("A billion here, a billion there. Pretty soon it adds up to real money.")

Everyone makes EVs today, but Tesla's technology is way ahead of anyone else's.

I have the top model of the Hyundai IONIQ-5, including all possible options (Tech Pack and all driver aids), and the Model-Y of my colleague at work is way more clever than my IONIQ 5, and he didn't even opt for the top model.

For example, the Model-Y correctly recognises and displays pedestrians and cyclists and bikers moving in the vicinity of the car when driving in slow city traffic, while the IONIQ 5 is only capable of showing 'blocks' (representing other cars on the road), and even that only when driving on Motorways (not in city driving, not on B roads, not on A roads), and when a special mode called Highway Driving Assist (HDA) is activated.

I don't know what tech went into the MB flagship EVs such as the EQS, but I am willing to bet that MB is nowhere near Tesla's Full Self Driving (FSD).

The same goes for battery management tech, and everything else on the car that's essentially IT.
 
For example, the Model-Y correctly recognises and displays pedestrians and cyclists and bikers moving in the vicinity of the car when driving in slow city traffic, while the IONIQ 5 is only capable of showing 'blocks' (representing other cars on the road), and even that only when driving on Motorways (not in city driving, not on B roads, not on A roads), and when a special mode called Highway Driving Assist (HDA) is activated.
I don't know what tech went into the MB flagship EVs such as the EQS, but I am willing to bet that MB is nowhere near Tesla's Full Self Driving (FSD).
Great rhetoric, but the question is whether this converts into actual safety.

It's lovely to "see" cars, pedestrians, motorbikes and even orange cones displayed on that central information display, but does it make a blind bit of difference to actual driving - at all, let alone in a crucial situation?

Likewise Full Self Driving is a lovely marketing claim, but as no-one's actually using it yet....

Screenshot 2023-10-03 at 16.06.18.png
 
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Likewise Full Self Driving is a lovely marketing claim, but as no-one's actually using it yet....
Really?.....they are....not just self driving, but completely driverless cars are on the streets working as taxis in San Francisco......Johnny Cab anyone!?


 
Really?.....they are....not just self driving, but completely driverless cars are on the streets working as taxis in San Francisco......Johnny Cab anyone!?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes we all know about ride hailing, self driving taxis in Arizona, Waymo, and all that stuff. But that's all still just tightly controlled experiment stuff.

People aren't using full self driving globally, even though a lot of suckers paid £4k for it three years ago.

Screenshot 2023-10-03 at 16.10.53.png
 
Great rhetoric, but the question is whether this converts into actual safety.

It's lovely to "see" cars, pedestrians, motorbikes and even orange cones displayed on that central information display, but does it make a blind bit of difference to actual driving - at all, let alone in a crucial situation?

Likewise Full Self Driving is a lovely marketing claim, but as no-one's actually using it yet....

View attachment 147735


The ability to correctly spot pedestrians, cyclists, bikers, pets, etc, is paramount for implementing self-driving in built-up area.

But of course, if you don't believe that self-driving will ever take off, then Tesla'a impressive ability to meet the prerequisites will obviously seem pointless to you.

In any event, this was just one example... wherever you poke the Tesla, it's tech it light-years ahead of the rest of the pack.
 
The ability to correctly spot pedestrians, cyclists, bikers, pets, etc, is paramount for implementing self-driving in built-up area.
But of course, if you don't believe that self-driving will ever take off, then Tesla'a impressive ability to meet the prerequisites will obviously seem pointless to you.
In any event, this was just one example... wherever you poke the Tesla, it's tech it light-years ahead of the rest of the pack.

Obviously those systems, usually from Valeo, are vital for self-driving. It's 17 years now since MB launched night vision in the S class. Fascinating to see, but as Clarkson pointed out, really only useful to watch dogging. You don't drive by looking downwards towards a TV screen, or by looking sideways at the central console of a Tesla Y.

Obviously we all believe self-driving will come and be successful.

My point was that Tesla haven't achieved it yet, despite announcing it years ago and invoicing suckers for it last decade.

No child running across a road is going to be saved by the screen display in your colleague's Tesla Y. It might, one day, when the technology advances significantly further. (And further enough not to be activated by a pheasant flying too slowly out of a car's way)

Whenever you poke self-driving and ADAS (automotive driving assistance), you'll find Valeo underneath. Vehicle designers and assemblers don't create the products that they assemble, nor even the robots that assemble their vehicles for them.

Tesla may be "ahead of the pack" but, as you've demonstrated, Brits are looking to Korea, China, Japan, and even poor old Europe for cars closer to their needs.
 

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