Improving a C63 s204

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Agree to a sense, I dare say the majority of owners Do follow the trend. However, all modern cars these days can only really be tuned by "remapping"etc.

I did a lot of research on all my mods and carried out some of them myself, then wrote out quite in depth reviews on here to advise or just put the info out there for other owners to consider.

And not one of my mods were "credit card mods"

Like I said, few go to the extent of doing a lot of research before they spend the money. Perhaps, you are this type of owner so you have my respect.

Asking what shall I do with my car and what mods shall I pursue is exactly the opposite of this and this was my point. If you don't know what you want to do, don't start.
 
Like I said, few go to the extent of doing a lot of research before they spend the money. Perhaps, you are this type of owner so you have my respect.

Asking what shall I do with my car and what mods shall I pursue is exactly the opposite of this and this was my point. If you don't know what you want to do, don't start.

There are a hell of a lot of folks on here and many other forums with automotive engineering experience, some at the very highest level. The fact that people discuss their modifications on a forum, rather than a car club meeting or down the pub, is irrelevant really.

I'll leave you to your assumptions and get back to rebuilding the crank on my H2 750 Triple. Hopefully I'll be smelling some toxic fumes by the weekend.
 
Nicely put and very accurate in my opinion. Every manufacturer likes to keep a distinct model hierarchy and of course that means power as well as specs are 'managed'. The first Mini One and Mini Cooper ran identicasl engines, but the One was restricted to about 90bhp, yet pay the (significant) extra for the Cooper and you got 125bhp - that's a massive increase. A £500 remap sorted that out too. Sure you may need to drive appropriate to the suspension and brake setups on your car, but it really was that easy.

Same with bikes from my past - early 90's Kawasaki ZX7 had throttle stops on the carb pistons to stop anything more than about 2/3rds opening, all to work with the Japanese 'gentlemens' agreement on max 100bhp or thereabouts, at the time.

So when people in relation to discussions about modifications tell me that "if it was that easy, the manufacturers would have done it already", they have no idea just how wrong they are....

Yeah that's the thing, sharing identical hardware and letting the marketing folk decide how to market / restrict models is becoming even more prevalent these days. 2.2 Transits, certain E90 325/330ds, 116/118i beemers, Mini's, some V10 Audis and no doubt a ton more.

Regarding motorbikes, MT09 Yamaha's are massively restricted by the ECU, as well as many others..

All good fun for those that like to tinker, whether that be by dropping the clip down a notch on a needle valve, or uploading an ECU tune.
 
Yeah that's the thing, sharing identical hardware and letting the marketing folk decide how to market / restrict models is becoming even more prevalent these days. 2.2 Transits, certain E90 325/330ds, 116/118i beemers, Mini's, some V10 Audis and no doubt a ton more.

Regarding motorbikes, MT09 Yamaha's are massively restricted by the ECU, as well as many others..

All good fun for those that like to tinker, whether that be by dropping the clip down a notch on a needle valve, or uploading an ECU tune.

And my Morgan 3-Wheeler used the oldest trick in the book - just weld as many baffle plates into the exhaust until your 125bhp motor makes 80bhp. and with just 3 minutes of idling get the headers glowing red hot. Horrendous pinking above 4500rpm and hopelessness beyond all measure. Free-flow exhaust adds back all the 'lost' power and everyone's happy.....
 
Anyway, I'd certainly say that adding a remap/headers to an M156 C63 isn't a daft idea whoever you are. If you know even a little about the engine then you'll come to realise that the same one with minor differences was used universally across many AMG's of the time and performance varied based on a couple of components restricting the true performance potential, which the engine is naturally built to produce, and are easliy released. The final output doesn't seem to be any different when comparing Performance Pack (light camshaft, piston and roads) and non-Performance Pack cars.

A remap for example releases the ECU restriction on horsepower, which is limited by the ECU only allowing the throttle to open a certain portion. This was allowed to open further on Performance Pack models in order to increase the power, and further again for the 507 models. A remap bypasses all three of these stages and allows as much as is safe with no hardware modifications
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The difference between the standard 6.2 lump and the PPP lump is the way it revs. On the road, at speed there is a noticeable difference in place when comparing the two at the same level of horse power.

Track testing shown that you need to map your standard C63 to circa 520bhp to match the stock PPP engine over the 100-200kph sprint. Map the PPP to 520 and it's a couple of tenths to 0.5s ahead again.
 
The internet has a lot to do with the way people modify their cars, or even the cars that they buy. The latest craze seems to be to get into a supercar/supercar performance territory as young as possible, brag about the numbers (money or bhp), post YouTube videos purporting to be footballer-scale wealthy and let the rest of the world speculate about what you do for a job and wish to be you. In reality they all seem to live at home and have a great deal of finance, but then again if your aspiration is to never own your own home, spending 80% of your monthly income on a car repayment is a personal choice and perfectly acceptable; do with your own life/money what you will. This lifestyle sells to the viewers and before you know it, another YouTube channel pops up doing exactly the same thing again by someone else, because the Internet said so.

Anyway, I'd certainly say that adding a remap/headers to an M156 C63 isn't a daft idea whoever you are. If you know even a little about the engine then you'll come to realise that the same one with minor differences was used universally across many AMG's of the time and performance varied based on a couple of components restricting the true performance potential, which the engine is naturally built to produce, and are easliy released. The final output doesn't seem to be any different when comparing Performance Pack (light camshaft, piston and roads) and non-Performance Pack cars.

A remap for example releases the ECU restriction on horsepower, which is limited by the ECU only allowing the throttle to open a certain portion. This was allowed to open further on Performance Pack models in order to increase the power, and further again for the 507 models. A remap bypasses all three of these stages and allows as much as is safe with no hardware modifications.

Now the headers. I'm not sure if they were made purposely restrictive or to comply with emissions and noise regulations, and there's probably some manufacturing cost saving to blame there too meaning they came out less than perfect for the engine. Aftermarket headers remove this problem and on their own without a remap will increase performance, but with a remap allow the engine to be the best it can be, naturally aspirated with no internal mods (cams or more fueling for example).

The upside/downside with headers is that they release a hell of a lot of engine sound. Coupled to the stock AMG exhaust system you are coming close to NASCAR levels of noise when you're "on it", otherwise it's still fairly civil in town. This is why a majority of people also buy a valvetronic rear silencers which are more robustly sound insulated than the stock AMG rear silencers. With valves closed and headers fitted, the exhaust is around as loud as a stock C63, maybe quieter but, with valves open it's louder still than a car with headers on the stock exhaust.


Very well put. This is the Millennial Malaise in a nutshell. Social media means that they over share EVERYTHING and everything is a competition about how they look. If you have ever run a business with millennials in then you will know that they all tell each other what they earn! My wife has never know what I earn! This over sharing is a recipe for unhappiness and disaster, forever comparing yourself to other people. The stats show this is the loneliest and unhappiest generation ever recorded despite having the best living standards.

I'm not counting here as most of us are miserable old gits and most of the responses you get are very helpful! If you want to see the above in action then check out the VWROC forum - a truly depressing place
 
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The difference between the standard 6.2 lump and the PPP lump is the way it revs. On the road, at speed there is a noticeable difference in place when comparing the two at the same level of horse power.

Track testing shown that you need to map your standard C63 to circa 520bhp to match the stock PPP engine over the 100-200kph sprint. Map the PPP to 520 and it's a couple of tenths to 0.5s ahead again.

That just doesn't make sense though. The power output is what it is and will take into account any friction or reciprocal losses. You don't want a lighter flywheel for drag racing either, off the line or when changing gear.

I've tested a stock 507 vs a Eurocharged stock C63 with 520bhp and the mapped one is quite a bit faster, either driven side by side, or just jumping in one from the other.

Your C63 seems to keep up with mapped V10 RS6s, maybe it's a freak of nature.
 
FTB

Your location and interest in MGB's would suggest we have a mutual friend in your neck of the woods, he owns and races a very modified black MGB at Santa POD, his eldest son grew up around POD and now works their. As for tuning I would agree with a mix of the opinions provides in this thread, it's subjective, lots have opinions based on what they read rather than what they actually know, nothing wrong with that, others just research and make an informed decision, again can't knock someone for this either.In my opinion the C63 is maybe a little over powered in stock form for the chassis, push one to 9/10ths and you start to learn it's capabilities and how talented a driver you are, tuning for BHP would only be of real use in a straight line but you would struggle to exploit all the stock power let alone the increased amount.

All in my own opinion of course , witnessing owners tune for their own reasons and levitate to a level on a forum is fun, either way I'm not bothered really, i generally ask why someone wants to tune there car, OK if it's a Saxo it's obvious but for cars running in excess of 400bhp under 1500kgs tends to bring back varied responses.
 
That just doesn't make sense though. The power output is what it is and will take into account any friction or reciprocal losses. You don't want a lighter flywheel for drag racing either, off the line or when changing gear.

I've tested a stock 507 vs a Eurocharged stock C63 with 520bhp and the mapped one is quite a bit faster, either driven side by side, or just jumping in one from the other.

Your C63 seems to keep up with mapped V10 RS6s, maybe it's a freak of nature.

Agree with this when I had a simple remap on my 457 bhp it left a ppp for dead.....at all speeds.
My opinion is it's not about power or how fast it revs....its if it manages to get the power down....put it this way the Mrs in her Juke RS can beat me away from the lights in the wet lol
 
That just doesn't make sense though. The power output is what it is and will take into account any friction or reciprocal losses. You don't want a lighter flywheel for drag racing either, off the line or when changing gear.

I've tested a stock 507 vs a Eurocharged stock C63 with 520bhp and the mapped one is quite a bit faster, either driven side by side, or just jumping in one from the other.

Your C63 seems to keep up with mapped V10 RS6s, maybe it's a freak of nature.



I'm only speaking for results off the road and figures from the numerous files from owners in the US and other countries. Of course it all depends on conditions, tyres, weights etc. But, general concensus is that the PPP cars do rev more freely and in turn pick up pace quicker in the upper reaches. Your bum dyno won't notice tenths on a run, but vbox will.

The sensation of improved performance in the map comes from the way it drives and sounds more than the turn of pace. I can't see how a mapped, stock C63 will be noticeably quicker than a 507. My PPP dyno'd at 500bhp when stock and 520 when mapped. The actual, factual improvement in performance was not really a great physical thing. Not like you'd feel going from 457bhp to 520bhp. The biggest difference was in the driving experience, and that's where the feeling of pace comes from. A 507 vs 520bhp mapped C63 will only sound and feel faster, but likely won't be faster by more than a smidge.

And yes, my car it seems is a little swift :)

My current 520bhp mapped PPP is a good bit quicker than my last 520 PPP saloon. Bar the clutches and shift speeds, the gearing is the same. Only mechanical difference is one has an AMG LSD and the last one had a Quaife. Same vbox, same roads. Consistent differences.

Agree with this when I had a simple remap on my 457 bhp it left a ppp for dead.....at all speeds.
My opinion is it's not about power or how fast it revs....its if it manages to get the power down....put it this way the Mrs in her Juke RS can beat me away from the lights in the wet lol

Off the line there are few cars that we'd be ahead of lol
 
Credit card tuning? Naht! I wish, Wife won't let me have one!


Perhaps I came across a little harsh in my post above. Please don't be offended, I was only trying to make a point that little knowledge goes a long way.

Offended? Nah! Fairly typical Forum response unfortunately, same sh!t different place. Heard it all before over on the other place when I (with the help of some others) was putting together my forged 760bhp Japanese unit.
Even got called names when i put it round a mildly damp Knockhill in minute dead... imagine how low i could get that 'if i could drive'
Still have the pin in my finger from when i was pulling the prop shaft and my mate (you know.... the daft one) though it would be a good idea to spin the back wheel (checking the bearing i guess!?!)

So as your 'MGB' if anyone would like a bit of help with Japanese forced induction, i'd be willing to help out.


Perhaps I came across a little harsh in my post above. Please don't be offended, I was only trying to make a point that assumption really gets on my ****!




Soooo..... Anyone willing to get back on topic and help someone new to big displacement N/A's
 
Agree with this when I had a simple remap on my 457 bhp it left a ppp for dead.....at all speeds.
My opinion is it's not about power or how fast it revs....its if it manages to get the power down....put it this way the Mrs in her Juke RS can beat me away from the lights in the wet lol

Agreed :thumb:
 
Well done, 27 posts in and bumped 10 threads from over a year ago. By all means carry on :p
Reply to me to here and let's get you to 30.
 
why o why is everyone picking on me
 

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