Increased Sanctions Proposed for Mobile Phone Use

[st13phil]

According to the BBC, here.

While I have no problem with the prohibition of hand-held mobile phone use while driving, the issue is not one of what size the sanction is but how likely an offender is to be caught. With the lack of Police patrols, the answer to that question is "precious little chance", and so the problem continues.

Also, it's absurd that some 13 years since the legislation was introduced we still don't have a proper, legally tested, definition of what "using a phone while driving" actually means. One obvious effect of an increase in the penalty may be that someone will take a case "all the way" and finally get that cleared up.

However, we need to keep all this in perspective. As far as collision causes avoidable by the driver goes, hand-held mobile phone use is pretty trivial in number (though not, obviously, trivial to a victim), and is of a similar magnitude to distractions from outside the vehicle. If it were around 1,000 times more commonplace you would be getting near to the number of avoidable deaths caused by the NHS...

 

[MWCLS]

It seems a forgotten law. People blantely drive around with hand held devices to their ear no regard it seems and dangerous not to mention idiots texting and driving.

The police I'm sure have a lot RTO to enforce but they don't seem pro active on this one seriously anymore ... in my neck of the woods anyhow.

 

[Red C220]

My business partner recently (a couple of weeks ago) went on a speed awareness course after he'd been photoed at 34mph in a 30mph limit.

He said they were extremely vocal about mobile phone use and made it clear they didn't differentiate between hand held or hands free use.

If it was determined you were on the phone at the time of the accident the police would push for a charge, I can't remember which one exactly but I think it was driving without due care and attention.

They also made it very clear they were pushing for all phone use by the driver in moving vehicle to made illegal, including the use of hands free systems.

 

[zipdip]

Well I cannot see how using hands free can be taken to court the police do it all the time,have you seen them driving with their heads cocked to one side listening to the radio on their shoulders,no people who are holding a phone and talking should be caught and get the fine or points,using the hands free to speak is no more dangerous than singing along to the music,so when are we going to nick the singers among us.

 

[Brian 1]

I always have sound on my dash cam, if proof is required, however, dash cams can go against you.......

 

[Red C220]

Well I cannot see how using hands free can be taken to court the police do it all the time,have you seen them driving with their heads cocked to one side listening to the radio on their shoulders,no people who are holding a phone and talking should be caught and get the fine or points,using the hands free to speak is no more dangerous than singing along to the music,so when are we going to nick the singers among us.

I was of the understanding that the passenger in a Police vehicle operated the radio?

As stated, the police/courts do note differentiate between hands free or hand held, is the distraction of the conversation that's considered the issue.

 

[renault12ts]

My business partner recently (a couple of weeks ago) went on a speed awareness course after he'd been photoed at 34mph in a 30mph limit.

He said they were extremely vocal about mobile phone use and made it clear they didn't differentiate between hand held or hands free use.

If it was determined you were on the phone at the time of the accident the police would push for a charge, I can't remember which one exactly but I think it was driving without due care and attention.

They also made it very clear they were pushing for all phone use by the driver in moving vehicle to made illegal, including the use of hands free systems.

That's it in a nutshell...the conversation is the danger, not whether you're holding the phone or not.

But...texting should see licence withdrawal!!

 

[badj]

They also made it very clear they were pushing for all phone use by the driver in moving vehicle to made illegal, including the use of hands free systems.

But what next - would it be illegal to converse whilst driving with a passenger?

I raise that as it'd be the most obvious rebuttal, as it's arguably more dangerous to be distracted by someone in the car, than someone over the speakers imo.

They'd do better to introduce regular retesting, as accidents and so on are more attributable to poor & careless driving ability, as well as ignorance towards the highway code, than talking using a hands free phone. Imo, of course.

 

[renault12ts]

Well I cannot see how using hands free can be taken to court the police do it all the time,have you seen them driving with their heads cocked to one side listening to the radio on their shoulders,no people who are holding a phone and talking should be caught and get the fine or points,using the hands free to speak is no more dangerous than singing along to the music,so when are we going to nick the singers among us.

Why? Do you find it difficult to hold something and drive? I doubt it...but when that's a phone and you are holding a conversation, it's a whole different ball game...doesn't matter if it's handsfree or not. No thought goes into singing along with a song, but a conversation is wholly different.

Let's not kid ourselves...the driver alone in a car is less distracted than the one chatting to a passenger or on the phone.

 

[Red C220]

But what next - would it be illegal to converse whilst driving with a passenger?

I raise that as it'd be the most obvious rebuttal, as it's arguably more dangerous to be distracted by someone in the car, than someone over the speakers imo.

They'd do better to introduce regular retesting, as accidents and so on are more attributable to poor & careless driving ability, as well as ignorance towards the highway code, than talking using a hands free phone. Imo, of course.

Actually his response was similar to your argument, having his two children in the car was more distracting than a hands free conversation on a phone.

The fundamental difference being that a phone conversation can be factually proved by phone records which the airtime providers are obliged to provide.

 

[renault12ts]

But what next - would it be illegal to converse whilst driving with a passenger?

I raise that as it'd be the most obvious rebuttal, as it's arguably more dangerous to be distracted by someone in the car, than someone over the speakers imo.

They'd do better to introduce regular retesting, as accidents and so on are more attributable to poor & careless driving ability, as well as ignorance towards the highway code, than talking using a hands free phone. Imo, of course.

A passenger can be aware of road conditions...the person on the other end of the conversation sees nothing. Phones used in cars should be banned without exception.

It'll not happen...but I condemn both.

 

[Red C220]

I have to say I would be quite comfortable with a blanket ban on phone use by the driver of a vehicle from the moment they are in the car.

It removes all ambiguity.

We all coped extremely well before the devices existed.

 

[boxbrownie]

That's it in a nutshell...the conversation is the danger, not whether you're holding the phone or not.

But...texting should see licence withdrawal!!

Texting killed one of my Daughters best friends last year, she was on her way home along a small but very straight B road and according to the driver and passenger in the car coming towards her they just saw the headlights dfit across the road into their path and her looking down at her lap.........her phone was found in the footwell still with the text messaging open.

Her husband had died in a farming accident (slurry pit) two years earlier and she left two young children behind.

I think any phones should be banned from use by drivers.

 

[badj]

Actually his response was similar to your argument, having his two children in the car was more distracting than a hands free conversation on a phone.

The fundamental difference being that a phone conversation can be factually proved by phone records which the airtime providers are obliged to provide.

But it can't prove who benefited from the call - a passenger can hold a conversation over the speakers/hands-free.

Just because it's possible to prove something doesn't eliminate the fact that it would cause all sorts of issues for people, not least professionals who would rely on telecommunication (for example, taxi drivers)

A passenger can be aware of road conditions...the person on the other end of the conversation sees nothing. Phones used in cars should be banned without exception.

It'll not happen...but I condemn both.

Will they ban things like Jeremy Vine? Such talk shows are oblivious to the individual conditions affecting the driver, but will still cause a distraction as it is intended to be a concious thought programme.

Can you see the amount of issues this raises?

It'd be a bit like punishing the majority for the sake of the idiocy of a small minority.

We all coped extremely well before the devices existed.

Are you implying that no accidents existed prior to the invention of the mobile phone?

Holding a physical object makes sense as a problem, as it directly interferes with the way you're suppose to be operating the vehicle. Any punishment regarding anything hands-free is discriminatory towards people who are, and have been, perfectly capable of driving a car without acting like a nuisance.

We should concentrate on ridding the roads of those who are a pain in the bum even when they're concentrating on their driving.



(as a disclaimer, I would say it's an absolute rarity that I've used a phone on my factory hands-free, but I see idiots undertaking and using wrong lanes every day, so priorities and all....)

 

[badj]

Texting killed one of my Daughters best friends last year, she was on her way home along a small but very straight B road and according to the driver and passenger in the car coming towards her they just saw the headlights dfit across the road into their path and her looking down at her lap.........her phone was found in the footwell still with the text messaging open.

Her husband had died in a farming accident (slurry pit) two years earlier and she left two young children behind.

I think any phones should be banned from use by drivers.

Would you believe I saw a girl texting (or looked like it) whilst riding a scooter last night? She was crossing give way lines and junctions but didn't look up once!

 

[flango]

So following the logic on this thread you have to ban emergency services from using in vehicle communications

Common sense should and will prevail

 

[Giantvanman]

the police do it all the time,have you seen them driving with their heads cocked to one side listening to the radio on their shoulders,

I was of the understanding that the passenger in a Police vehicle operated the radio?

As stated, the police/courts do note differentiate between hands free or hand held, is the distraction of the conversation that's considered the issue.

There is an exemption in law for police (and emergency services) to use radio communications whilst they are driving. If, however, they use the Airwave set to receive or make a telephone call (these sets have the capability) whilst driving, then that would, I suspect, be an offence because the communication is no longer via radio waves but via telephony (or whatever the term is).

It is not illegal in itself to make or receive a call using a bluetooth link or other hands-fee method. The illegality arises if the driver, whilst using handsfree, is involved in a collision, deemed to be there fault. This then opens them up to driving without care and attention.

This is no different to, for example, legally putting in a CD or changing radio station but as a result, cause a collision.

This is a good example of where a lawful act become an unlawful act because of the circumstances. Simples?

 

[flango]

Truckers and CB a 44 tonne missile while someone plays rubber ducky quite legally with no trace of the conversation?

 

[Giantvanman]

Truckers and CB a 44 tonne missile while someone plays rubber ducky quite legally with no trace of the conversation?

Bizarre, isn't it? The overall exemption for two way radio is because many government agencies use these devices which have limited range (unless part of a network e.g. police) so Yorkie munchers (sorry, couldn't resist) and mini cabs are also exempt.

 

[Red C220]

I still fail to see the downside of a blanket ban of the use of mobile phones when laws exist specifically for 2 way radios and emergency services.

Surely the upside of the ban would significantly outweigh the downside?




https://www.gov.uk/using-mobile-phones-when-driving-the-law

Using mobile phones when driving: the law
It’s illegal to ride a motorcycle or drive using hand-held phones or similar devices.
The rules are the same if you’re stopped at traffic lights or queuing in traffic.

It’s also illegal to use a hand-held phone or similar device when supervising a learner driver or rider.

Penalties for using your phone while driving
You can get an automatic fixed penalty notice if you’re caught using a hand-held phone while driving or riding. You’ll get 3 penalty points on your licence and a fine of £100.

Your case could also go to court and you could be disqualified from driving or riding and get a maximum fine of £1,000. Drivers of buses or goods vehicles could get a maximum fine of £2,500.

New drivers

You’ll lose your licence if you get 6 or more penalty points within 2 years of passing your test.

When you can use a phone in your vehicle
If you’re the driver, you can only use your phone in a vehicle if you:

need to call 999 or 112 in an emergency and it’s unsafe or impractical to stop
are safely parked
Using hands-free devices when driving
You can use hands-free phones, sat navs and 2-way radios when you’re driving or riding. But if the police think you’re distracted and not in control of your vehicle you could still get stopped and penalised.