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cinek

MB Enthusiast
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Herts
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Following from the other thread, involving parking on double yellow lines I would like to add few points to the discussion, without hijacking the other thread.

I will not go into a very specific details, as I havent got the time (sorry) and it would end up creating another 'War and Peace' on here...


Parking attendants in most boroughs are on the cumulative bonus, meaning - the more revenue they bring, the more extra pay they receive.
When you put it like this, no wonder they will go out of their ways to issue as many tickets as possible.

The government tries to stop this, and show a bit of leniency to members of public and they are currently discussing a 5min delay between the meter cut off and actual ticket issued.

Parking restrictions are normally enforced by yellow markings supported by relevant signs. They may be 'Pay and display' machines near-by, or parking will be restricted to permit holders only (e.g. local residents)

Parking outside the allocated bay, without the valid permit or sometimes with the wrong type of vehicle (car parked in motorcycles bays) will normally result in a fine.

I have already explained the rules behind the yellow lines, so lets add red routes to the equation.
As such, these are monitored by the city's main governing body - oppose to local boroughs.
In London, all red routes are managed and enforced by the TfL.
In simple words - stay away from those. In most cases you will not end up with the just the ticket, but will see your car lifted and taken away as well.

Bus lanes - some of them will have information signs (white letters on blue background), some dont.
If they do have time displayed, e.g. 7am - 10am, this is the time where the bus lane is operational. Some may have 'At Any Time' notice, which is self-explanatory.
If however there are no signs with time limits displayed - stay well away! These are 24h and most likely monitored.
Remember, some buses have on board recording, plus there are countless CCTV units installed for that exact purpose - catch as many offenders, as possible.

Speed - each speed difference will be indicated by two terminal signs (either side of carriageway).
In a temporary situation (roadworks) these signs are subject to illumination requirements, which are;
- in the permanent speed of 50mph or more
- 50m or less from the lamp column
- in are of general street lighting which is on
In the road works situation, the speed repeater signs are to be placed in pairs or on the alternate side of carriageway.
If the speed limit is reduced to 40mph - repeaters must be no more than 500m apart if in pairs, or no more than 350m if alternated.
If the speed limit is reduced to 50mph - repeaters must be no more than 700m apart if in pairs, or no more than 450m if alternated.
The repeaters are subject to illumination requirements, just like the terminal signs.

Yellow boxes - this scheme is monitored and enforced by TfL. Unless your vehicle is constantly moving (even if it is 5mph), stopping on the yellow box will result in fine.
TfL employs special units who's sole purpose is to monitor busy junctions, in some cases - 24/7.
Again, unless the yellow box FULLY complies with TSRGD 2002, no offence was committed and no fine can be issued.
I wont go in a detail as to how these are painted, but as it is extremely difficult to lay the paint across the whole of junction in one hit - and because of that, most of yellow boxes in London are in fact incorrect!

Disabled bays on the streets - if you are disable badge holder and come across a disable bay on a street, say with the house number, you are still allowed to park in there.
It is illegal to paint a house number in such bay, as by law, anybody who's a blue badge holder, is allowed to park in there.
That means, you might have gone through all the effort to have one put outside your house, but if the next door neighbour decides to use it - there is nothing you can do to stop him (unless they do not have the blue badge of course).


There is a lot more, but I got to run...maybe we could use this and others could share their experiences and how to help each other out.
 
Speed - each speed difference will be indicated by two terminal signs (either side of carriageway).
In a temporary situation (roadworks) these signs are subject to illumination requirements, which are;
- in the permanent speed of 50mph or more
- 50m or less from the lamp column
- in are of general street lighting which is on
In the road works situation, the speed repeater signs are to be placed in pairs or on the alternate side of carriageway.
If the speed limit is reduced to 40mph - repeaters must be no more than 500m apart if in pairs, or no more than 350m if alternated.
If the speed limit is reduced to 50mph - repeaters must be no more than 700m apart if in pairs, or no more than 450m if alternated.
The repeaters are subject to illumination requirements, just like the terminal signs.

Thanks for that, very helpful.

With regard to speed restrictions, I now have the joy of driving through several areas of variable speed limited motorway on a daily basis. These have the gantries over the motorway with the illuminated signs showing the current limit in white letters with a red circle. They are often paired with cameras!

I understand that the red circle makes them mandatory not advisory. However, they do not seem to be placed / illuminated at the intervals listed above and on some occasions every sign can show a different speed to the last!

Are these legally enforcable or are they just trying to look real without any legal backing?

Thanks
Ian

PS if you are interested in which areas, i am generally to be found on the M1 between J29 and J7 or the M42 around the M6 / NEC intersections....
 
Hi Ian,

The repeater requirements listed above are to do with temporary restrictions not permanent layouts.
 
Do the reduced limits displayed on motorway gantries not count as temporary restrictions??
 
Do the reduced limits displayed on motorway gantries not count as temporary restrictions??

This is a bit complicated.

Permanent speed restrictions will be enforced on the back of TRO (Traffic Regulation Order).
As such, any speed you will see on the gantry will still fall within the TRO.

Temporary speed restriction is enforced on the back of the TTRO (Temporary Traffic Regulation Order).
It is normally valid for up to 18 months, but can be extended when required.

TRO can take up to 12 months before they go live and public consultation is allowed during that process.

TTRO take anything from 6 - 15 weeks (depending on the local authority which issues it) and no consultation process is allowed.


The variable speed limits signs you see on the gantries, are in fact illuminated as these are displayed on the backlit boards.
 
There's also some sort of 'grace period' built in to the gantries IIRC, so the cameras aren't active as soon as a lower limit is displayed?
 
There's also some sort of 'grace period' built in to the gantries IIRC, so the cameras aren't active as soon as a lower limit is displayed?

It is normally 10% + 2 mph.
 
I meant a period of time between the new limit being displayed and the cameras becoming active.
 
I meant a period of time between the new limit being displayed and the cameras becoming active.

This will really depend on the authority that manages the cameras.
Speed displayed applies from the moment it appears on the gantry.
 
This will really depend on the authority that manages the cameras.
Speed displayed applies from the moment it appears on the gantry.

well it is only a matter of time then as the gap between gantries is so far I sometimes forget what the last one said (as they change so often!) and its hard to tell a 5 from a 6 sometimes in bad weather until you are nearly on it - and i dont think random hard braking on a wet motorway is particularly safe!

The 10% plus 2 is probably my saviour so far!

Ian
 
Speed displayed applies from the moment it appears on the gantry.

That's as maybe but it's not reasonable to expect a driver to decelerate from 70 mph to 40 mph in 20 yds if the limit suddenly changes as you're about to pass a gantry. It's not like approaching a fixed speed limit sign.
 
That's as maybe but it's not reasonable to expect a driver to decelerate from 70 mph to 40 mph in 20 yds if the limit suddenly changes as you're about to pass a gantry. It's not like approaching a fixed speed limit sign.

Of course it is not reasonable for any vehicle to decelerate from 70mph to say 40mph instantly.


Each time the variable speed gets implemented, there is a detailed log/paper trail of such action, showing date and time it went live.

If the offence was committed within seconds of system going live, it would not be unreasonable for the offender to use this as a mitigation circumstances, arguing there was no suitable warning, nor time nor distance, for them to safely adjust their speed.
 
"Of course it is not reasonable for any vehicle to decelerate from 70mph to say 40mph instantly"

Nor possible..... Sorry, couldn't resist it. I'll get my coat...
 
"Of course it is not reasonable for any vehicle to decelerate from 70mph to say 40mph instantly"

Nor possible..... Sorry, couldn't resist it. I'll get my coat...

There are probably some rides in Thorp Park or Alton Towers which can make this possible ;)
 
OK I found this relating to the M60/M62 ... I guess others are similar

Where a speed limit changes less than ten seconds before a vehicle passes the sign, the Regulations allow a driver to proceed at a speed up to the maximum applicable before the change, and to continue to do so until the driver leaves the specified road, the national speed limit applies or until the next speed limit sign. The intention behind this ’ten second’ rule is to protect the driver from being prosecuted if, on the approach to a speed limit sign; it changes to a lower speed. For example should a driver approach a speed limit sign and it changes from 60mph to 50mph and he/she is within ten seconds of passing that sign then the driver can legally continue beyond that sign at 60mph until a subsequent speed limit applies or until he/she leaves the specified road. If there was no ten second rule, the issue of safety arises, as the driver would be required to brake sharply in order to comply with the new lower speed limit.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...vember_final_061113_1030_doc__attachment_.pdf
 

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