Insurance claim on new car - Not my fault!

[lil.smartie]

Just wondering if anyone on here has ever had anything like this happen & what the outcome was!

Brand new Toyota iQ, 2 weeks old and has 65 miles on. HGV reversed into me whilst I was stationary, he decided to give way when it was his right of way then decided he hadn't stopped far enough back so reversed into me as I didn't have enough time from when his reverse light came on to get my car into reverse, take handbrake off & move!

His insurance co have admitted full liability, the accident happened 8 weeks ago, this took over a week to happen as the haulage co didn't report it! They have had an estimate of damaged parts, a letter from Toyota stating that any parts which are replaced will have a 1 year parts warranty (not the 5 yr manufacturer warranty it did have) and photos all from 4 weeks ago and it's only been this week that they have managed to send an assessor to look at the car and decide that it needs to go to Toyota to decide if there has been engine damage...

Now I have 2 major issues with all of this. 1 is the time they are taking to do anything, hopefully this is now going to move quicker as I emailed the head of claims at the insurance co on Friday and he has got a senior engineer on the case but the 2nd problem is that no matter who does the repairs I won't have my 5 year manufacturer warranty on the car, the areas repaired will have a 5 year warranty with the repairing dealer..

Should I have to accept this or not, I was looking to sell in 2 yrs time (took 2 yrs finance) and a car with 3 yrs manufacturer 'full bumper to bumper' warranty is surely worth more than one with 3 yrs manufacturer warranty on the back half and 3 yr Platinum Toyota Bath (for eg that's where it's going on Tues) warranty?! Also if Platinum decide to stop trading I've then got half a car with no warranty! Or if it's a part 'disturbed' during the repairs I can see me arguing with them both as to who is responsible!

Please help!

Thanks

Kate

 

[markjay]

Put simply, if you are claiming on someone else's insurance, you are entitled to be refunded for any demonstrable damage.

For example: If the warranty is reduced for some of your car from 5 years to 1 year, you need to try and put a cost value to it (e.g. ask Toyota what would it cost extra if you wanted to have the entire car warranted for 5 years again?).

As for the time it is taking, you are entitled to an equivalent replacement rental for as long as it takes, at the insurer's expense.

As an example, if the insurer is being difficult, just add a note to your next letter that you also request £20 to cover for your time in writing this letter, and that you will claim £20 again for each future letter.

There is no limit to what you can claim in this case, but the basics are (a) it must be true - do not be tempted to commit insurance fraud, (b) you must be able to demonstrate - or otherwise reasonably convince - that you indeed suffered the alleged damage, and (c) you must be able to put a cost figure to it - insurance companies can't deal with abstract issues.

 

[markjay]

Just to clarify, it is different when you claim on your own insurance. In that case, your actual damage is not important, what is important is what your policy says. You are entitled to what's in your policy, you are not entitled to anything that is not in your policy even if you did suffer damage. But again, when claiming on someone else's policy you can claim anything you like as long as you can reasonably demonstrate that you incurred the cost claimed.

 

[kurtdaley]

Just wondering if anyone on here has ever had anything like this happen & what the outcome was!

Brand new Toyota iQ, 2 weeks old and has 65 miles on. HGV reversed into me whilst I was stationary, he decided to give way when it was his right of way then decided he hadn't stopped far enough back so reversed into me as I didn't have enough time from when his reverse light came on to get my car into reverse, take handbrake off & move!

His insurance co have admitted full liability, the accident happened 8 weeks ago, this took over a week to happen as the haulage co didn't report it! They have had an estimate of damaged parts, a letter from Toyota stating that any parts which are replaced will have a 1 year parts warranty (not the 5 yr manufacturer warranty it did have) and photos all from 4 weeks ago and it's only been this week that they have managed to send an assessor to look at the car and decide that it needs to go to Toyota to decide if there has been engine damage...

Now I have 2 major issues with all of this. 1 is the time they are taking to do anything, hopefully this is now going to move quicker as I emailed the head of claims at the insurance co on Friday and he has got a senior engineer on the case but the 2nd problem is that no matter who does the repairs I won't have my 5 year manufacturer warranty on the car, the areas repaired will have a 5 year warranty with the repairing dealer..

Should I have to accept this or not, I was looking to sell in 2 yrs time (took 2 yrs finance) and a car with 3 yrs manufacturer 'full bumper to bumper' warranty is surely worth more than one with 3 yrs manufacturer warranty on the back half and 3 yr Platinum Toyota Bath (for eg that's where it's going on Tues) warranty?! Also if Platinum decide to stop trading I've then got half a car with no warranty! Or if it's a part 'disturbed' during the repairs I can see me arguing with them both as to who is responsible!

Please help!

Thanks

Kate

Can't give much advice really, but if you are without a car to use get in touch with accident exchange and they will supply you with an equivalent car and claim the costs off the wagon drivers insurance.

I have used this company www.accidentexchange.com on 2 occasions when I had BMW's (I know, bad) and the service was great from them.
Hope this helps, Kurt.

 

[cliveyboy8]

I find the original post a little confusing so please accept my apologies if I have got it wrong.

Can't answer the bits about the warranty.

Are you saying that you are dealing with the third party's insurance company? If so, why?

What is your insurance company doing to help? This is clearly a no fault claim. If you have cover through a reputable company they should have arranged collection of the car and provided you with a hire car if your policy provides one.

They should deal with the third party's insurance company in recovering the costs. Any unrecovered costs (excess) will be dealt with by the legal cover if you have it.

We all pay enough to insure our cars so when something like this happens which is not your fault get them to do the hard work.

And before anybody contradicts I did it this way on a specialist vehicle when someone ran into the back of me. All costs were recovered by my insurance company.

Good luck.

 

[Rory]

.... a letter from Toyota stating that any parts which are replaced will have a 1 year parts warranty (not the 5 yr manufacturer warranty it did have)

Are you sure about that? Does the letter actually say they won't have the 5yr warranty or are you just drawing that conclusion from the statement about 1 yr?

Normally, the whole point of using the manufacturers recommended repairer is that you retain the original warranty.

 

[Smiley]

Can't give much advice really, but if you are without a car to use get in touch with accident exchange and they will supply you with an equivalent car and claim the costs off the wagon drivers insurance.

I have used this company www.accidentexchange.com on 2 occasions when I had BMW's (I know, bad) and the service was great from them.
Hope this helps, Kurt.

Pls don't contact these sort of accident management companies - they make huge amounts of money simply by supplying rental cars at extortianate rates and guess who pays through higher insurance premiums in the end?

There have been several cases where the insurer has refused to repay the rental costs and this has left the insured having to pay thousands in rental costs - tread carefully.

If your car was 2 weeks old and with 65 miles on it then I think you have a case to claim for the cost of a new one personally. I would put this direct to the company that did the damage and tell them thats what you want from them - up to them if they can persuade their insurers or not.

 

[Dryce]

Pls don't contact these sort of accident management companies - they make huge amounts of money simply by supplying rental cars at extortianate rates and guess who pays through higher insurance premiums in the end?

I disagree.

After being treated appallingly by insurance companies on previous no-faults my attitude now if I had a minor no fault claim is:

• Give the insurer exactly 6 working hours to contact me and commit to to getting the claim sorted and if required a courtesy car in a reasonable time.
• Making it clear to them if they meet that condition that if they let me down on that initial commitment the case gets handed to an accident management company and I want that condition on record.

If they don't meet the first condition it gets handed to an accident management company.

Having been screwed over in the past I'm not sympathetic to what the accident managemennt company will charge them.

However the 6 hours is a new concession after last time around where the insurer did try and get back to us within a few hours but we had already gone straight to an accident management company.

 

[Rory]

Having been screwed over in the past I'm not sympathetic to what the accident managemennt company will charge them.

I kind of agree, but Smiley is right - we all pay for this in the end, and there are often cases on internet forums of people who have been dragged into court becuase the other party's insurer refised to pay a massive hire bill. Even if you think you paid a waiver, part of it is that you commit to appear in court if the case ends up there, and you have to prove that you needed the car and couldn't fund one yourself (this is the crux of credit hire).

The other common complaint is that you'll get hounded by lawyers to pursue a personal injury claim.

What strikes me as odd is that if you claim for on your own insurance for something which is clearly the other parties fault, many will pass it out to claims handling company!

 

[lil.smartie]

I'm dealing with the 3rd party insurance co as mine handed it to Fortis Legal Guard who in turn handed it to Help Hire who did organise me a car (as 3rd party ins co couldn't as incident not reported yet!) but also wanted to take my car to a bodyshop who are Land Rover, Mazda and Jag approved. My car is a Toyota and needs to go to a mechanical workshop not a bodyshop so as Toyota were giving me grief as my car was taking up space and the haulage co hadn't reported the claim the car was collected from Toyota and brought to our garage (we specialise in Smarts) so we could at least get an estimate done as Toyota wouldn't do one until they knew who was footing the bill!

Help Hire took their car back last weekend as the 3rd party insurer (the ones who are dragging their heels and would only offer me a 60bhp Corsa to replace my top spec 98bhp iQ) wouldn't authorise it for longer than 45 days?!

I think once Toyota have assessed my car I'll take it up with the haulage co if the insurance co don't play ball!

Thanks

Kate

 

[Rory]

I'm dealing with the 3rd party insurance co as mine handed it.....

Help Hire took their car back last weekend as the 3rd party insurer (the ones who are dragging their heels and would only offer me a 60bhp Corsa to replace my top spec 98bhp iQ) wouldn't authorise it for longer than 45 days?!

I'm bemused by each of those things - when someone crashed in the back of Mrs R's car I claimed on my insurance and they dealt with the whole thing. To my mind, that's why I have fully comp insurance.

And I thought one of the main points of Help Hire was that they arranged a like for like car while yours was off the road.

 

[Dryce]

I'm bemused by each of those things - when someone crashed in the back of Mrs R's car I claimed on my insurance and they dealt with the whole thing. To my mind, that's why I have fully comp insurance.

The problem we discovered with using your own insurer is that they may well:

• not actually look at the facts
• try and settle on a 50 50
• fob you off with poxy replacement car

That last part isn't really an issue for us in the sense that a small hatch that gets us about while things get sorted is quite OK. But I have an auto only licence. And that doesn't always compute with your own insurer. An accident management company OTOH will get you that auto even if it has to be delivered across half the country.

Those first two parts however mean you might well get screwed over by your own firm if you involve them.

 

[bpsorrel]

Pls don't contact these sort of accident management companies - they make huge amounts of money simply by supplying rental cars at extortianate rates and guess who pays through higher insurance premiums in the end?

There have been several cases where the insurer has refused to repay the rental costs and this has left the insured having to pay thousands in rental costs - tread carefully.

If your car was 2 weeks old and with 65 miles on it then I think you have a case to claim for the cost of a new one personally. I would put this direct to the company that did the damage and tell them thats what you want from them - up to them if they can persuade their insurers or not.

I disagree. When my 2 week old Saab was hit whilst stationery by a truck, Accident Exchange did everything for me. My insurance wasn't involved at any stage. AE arranged the replacement car, just 2 HOURS after the accident, my car was taken to my chosen dealer and an identical car was supplied to me for use right up until the repair was complete and the courtesy car swapped for mine at the dealer. They handled all the dealings with the 3rd Party so I had no hassle or complications at all. Personally, I can't praise Accident Exchange enough and would definately use them again if the need arose. Why should I care how much the accident cost the 3rd Party or his insurance? Pain free service and a decent repair is all I care about and AE did a superb job with that!

 

[prprandall51]

I think there is a bit of confusion here. Accident Management companies have sprung up from nowhere is recent years to handle the settlement (repairs, hire cars, additional costs) associated with a no-fault claim. Accident Management companies are usually appointed by the insurer of the at-fault party and move swiftly to address the issues and problems of the "victim" in an at-fault incident.

The reason (as far as I am aware) for accident managment companies is to reduce - and hopefully eliminate - the use of Credit Hire comapanies. These are the cowboys who have caused so many problems by offering luxurious replacement cars allegedly at no cost the the victim of a fault-based incident. It is the bills of credit hire companies that insurers are nowadays refusing to pay (because the charges are trumped up and the cars themselves are often out of all proportion to the vehicle damaged) leaving the innocent party in an incident with the final bill (a friend of mine was pursued for a Credit Hire bill of £60,000 when the third party's insurers refused to pay even though they admitted full liability - this is going back 15 years or so).

There also seem to be plenty of independent Accident Management companies, too, though, and this also seems to be an issue with insurers, who prefer you to use their own. The accident management package offered by my Mercedes Dealer is just such an example, and my insurers suggested that I should not use them since they are generally contributing to the overall cost of insurance.

For my part, when I was shunted from behind, the other party's insurers moved swiftly to put their accident management company onto the case. I was a bit wary but my insurer (Privilege) assured me this was normal and that they do exactly the same thing in an at-fault accident. If there was a lack of clarity over who was responsible in an accident, I would avoid involving an accident management company since I imagine that somebody along the line is going to have to pay their fees and some - or all -of that would eventually work its way back to me either as a direct cost or in increased premiums.

 

[Rory]

Why should I care how much the accident cost the 3rd Party or his insurance?

...because you (and everyone else) is paying for it in higher premiums.

Did you really need a like for like hire car? I can understand that some people, perhaps Mums with people carriers, business people doing long trips etc might do, but most people could manage as long as they had transport (and a fair number have spare cars).

So you then you get into the "I'm entitled" argument, which makes people sound like benefits claimants. There's someone on PistonHeads who was hired an Aston Martin and turned some minor damage into a £30K claim. Is that reasonable? Courts have said that it isn't.


Accident Exchange tries (it's actually been in some financial turmoil for a while) to make its money from hiring accident victims cars:

"Accident Exchange Group Plc is a United Kingdom-based company. The Company is engaged in the delivery of accident management and other solutions to the automotive and insurance related sectors. Its revenue is derived from the provision of non-fault accident management assistance and related services, and from the hire of replacement vehicles to the non-fault parties to road traffic accidents."

See also: http://www.postonline.co.uk/post/news/1719906/allianz-reduces-credit-hire-claim-gbp30k-court-win

 

[Smiley]

These blood sucking ambulance chasing "accident management" (are you absolutely sure you dont have whiplash - I mean really really sure?) and "helphire" (I mean who needs help to hire a car) companies are a sad reflection of the American litigious culture and our desire to extract the maximum personal benefit at whatever cost - well as long as you dont moan when your insurance premiums sky rocket that's fine.

 

[Dryce]

These blood sucking ambulance chasing "accident management" (are you absolutely sure you dont have whiplash - I mean really really sure?) and "helphire" (I mean who needs help to hire a car) companies are a sad reflection of the American litigious culture and our desire to extract the maximum personal benefit at whatever cost - well as long as you dont moan when your insurance premiums sky rocket that's fine.

They're maybe also a sad reflection of the behaviour of insurance companies.

Quick totting up of clear-cut no fault claims incurred by ourselves and close family over the last few decades and the conclusion is that we got let down in some way on 2/3 of the claims. Smoothest (1/6) claims were those handled by accident management companies (which included on where the insurer used an accident management company to handle the claim on a comprehensive policy). That leaves 1/6 of claims handled by the insurers themselves that were 'satisfactory'.

Sad indictment of the industry IMO. It reaps what it sows.

 

[lil.smartie]

Well we called into Toyota yesterday, they knew nothing, sent an email 10am to 3rd party ins co, 4.30 I got a call from Toyota, they had JUST been called!!!

Luckily having spoken to them yesterday I knew this and so had contacted the solicitor appointed by my insurance co also about 10am, they called back about 12 to let me know they had appointed an assessor who would be in contact within 24hrs to arrange an inspection and that they will take on the responsibility for the claim, the 3rd party have had 2 months to do this and I'm sick of the excuses (fax got lost was the one for today's issues) hopefully, although we have gone back to the start, this will be a quicker way to get this resolved! Toyota are still on my side and I've said the car will prob still go to them but not tomorrow!

Kate