Interesting Article.....

[MangoMan]

9 June 2007
Motorists face a new army of car snoopers

To anyone who has worked in the Road Transport Industry in the UK, the latest Department Of Transport proposals will sound chillingly familiar

Motorists face being clamped and fined at the roadside by an army of uniformed Government inspectors, it has emerged.

Drivers whose vehicles are judged unroadworthy, have overly tinted windows, lack a valid tax disc or MoT will be subject to being pulled over by examiners from the Vehicle Operator and Services Agency, if new proposals are accepted.

It is planned to give the 560 VOSA inspectors - who wear black uniforms, peaked hats and yellow jackets - powers previously held only by the police to issue fixed penalty fines.

And their workload, which currently focuses on commercial vehicles, will extend to private motorists

Under the proposals, if they find that a car has already been banned from the road - or believe the driver is likely to ignore the fixed penalty fine - they will have powers to immobilise the vehicle. But they will not be able to issue speeding tickets and penalty points. The proposals were outlined yesterday in a consultation document which the Department of Transport said was aimed mainly at cracking down on lorries from abroad which flout UK laws with impunity. But the proposals have fuelled concern about the growing numbers of uniformed civilian agencies being given powers that were once the preserve of the police.

Edmund King of the RAC Foundation said: 'Our major worry is this growing army of uniformed bureaucrats.

"We now have decriminalised parking with private-sector parking wardens. On the motorways the Highways Agency have been given police- style powers to direct traffic. Now we have VOSA issuing fixed penalties. We are not against targeting rogue lorries. But vulnerable motorists such as lone women are being flagged down by uniformed people who are not police. This dilution of powers makes it difficult for drivers to tell if they should or shouldn't stop when flagged down. We think VOSA's powers to issue fixed penalty notices should be restricted only to lorries, not cars."

The consultation document notes: "The Road Safety Act will amend the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 (RTOA) to give VOSA vehicle examiners equivalent powers to those already vested in the police to issue fixed penalty notices."

The Department of Transport said the changes would speed up enforcement and free up the courts. It added: "The current fixed penalty scheme administered by the police has resulted in considerable savings in time." VOSA estimates that of the 13,500 cases it pursued through the courts in 2005, around 90 per cent could have been dealt with by fixed penalty. A Transport Department spokesman said: "VOSA already have the power to stop non-commercial drivers, although their work is aimed at commercial vehicles so this rarely occurs.

"Currently if a VOSA examiner does stop a non- commercial vehicle, the examiner can only enforce by taking the offence to court. Under the new measures the examiner would be able to issue a fixed penalty notice." Foreign lorry drivers will also be hit with on-the-spot fines to stop them flouting UK traffic laws.

Roads Minister Stephen Ladyman said: "This is about making our roads safer and creating a level playing field across Europe."

In another move, ministers are planning a graduated system of penalty points for speeders, with fewer points for drivers just over the limit, but more for those well over it.

These proposals highlight the Government’s further moves to undermine and remove powers from the traditional unique quasi-judicial position long-held by the UK’s Traffic Commissioners whose independent role in our legal system have often left the Government and it’s executive agencies (ie VOSA etc) with a bloody-nose. It is also worth remembering here that whenever this type of legislation is put into place by Government, it removes the assumption of innocence on the part of the individual, as well as rendering any prescribed offences “absolute” ; that is to say, there is no opportunity for an individual to be found “not-guilty” by the courts. Furthermore, if an individual is working when an offence is apparently committed, his/her employer is automatically deemed to have “caused and permitted” the offence, again without the right to a defence or to be found not-guilty by the courts.

VOSA staff, in common with many private and local government enforcement operatives, are also financially incentivised to issue non-compliance and offence notices, making it in the operator’s interests to issue penalty notices.

All this is basically being done in the name of road safety, and bringing the UK into line with Europe, when in fact, the UK already has the safest roads in Europe, so it leads us to deduce that once again the hard-pressed motorist is to be even more victimised, repressed and taxed.

Ciao.......

 

[GrahamC230K]

Didn't read it all, but sounds good to me.

 

[Howard]

Yeah , sounds reasonable to me too !

I pay a lot of money each year on tax , insurance and maintenance , why should the segment of society who think it doesn't apply to them get away with it ?

Deep tints cause accidents , uninsured vehicles are a menace , i have to pay for an MOT , and have to repair the car should it fail , so why shouldn't everyone ?

Got no problems from me .....

 

[ADY1983]

Didn't read it all, but sounds good to me.

Sounds good to me too, I always make sure the cars are up together etc. some people just leave things until the MOT tyres etc. which lets face it is dangerous...

 

[Carrotchomper]

I like the idea, definitely, of a tougher stance on muppets driving around in motorised sheds. And the on-the-spot fine system should be extended to ALL foreign-registered drivers. It is the norm on the continent and should apply here.

However I do share the concerns of many of all these different uniformed bodies with rapidly increasing powers. Although provided they can show discretion and exercise those powers sensibly then fair play.

 

[janner]

Discretion and fair play will go out the window if there are targets to reach. Just ask anyone in Torquay about parking.
I agree with clamping down on foreign lorries and cars that currently evade UK laws buy simply being registered abroad and the drivers refusing to speak English if stopped.

 

[pammy]

Most of it sounds reasonable to me too. Keep on the right side and you'll be OK.

 

[recycled]

Yeah , sounds reasonable to me too !

I pay a lot of money each year on tax , insurance and maintenance , why should the segment of society who think it doesn't apply to them get away with it ?

Deep tints cause accidents , uninsured vehicles are a menace , i have to pay for an MOT , and have to repair the car should it fail , so why shouldn't everyone ?

Got no problems from me .....

No problems too. the problem will start when it now becomes a money making scheme like the speed cameras. The inspector will see a defect in your car whether there is one or not in order to reach his projected revenue target if he has not yet attained it. So what may be good for a county that has reached its target may be wrong in another county that has not so get ready for stuff like you did not indicate earlier enough , or your windscreen has a chip in it, e.t.c your exhaust it too loud.

 

[glojo]

Discretion and fair play will go out the window if there are targets to reach. Just ask anyone in Torquay about parking.

Definitely a fair point. I'm all for doing anything to get these cars off the road, but I object to being deceived. We are continually told crime is down and Police numbers are at there highest? What are all these officers doing? More and more of the jobs the Police used to do are being civilianised, thus freeing up more Police to do less work? Why farm out something that has the potential of confrontation, surely this is what our Police are paid for?

The point Janner made is also very valid, these civilians tend to not use ANY discretion, plus if they do not meet targets then they are shown the door.

As I say, I am all for clamping down on the offenders but let's see the Police more pro-active.

John

 

[BonzoDog]

It looks like the usual glass half empty and half full polarisation.
Does anybody object to unroadworthy vehicles being removed from the road, as well as those that are untaxed. Such cars are rife in some parts of the UK.
I would also question the safest roads in Europe claim. Is that not Sweden, albeit with UK not far behind.
Has not the case of over zealous operatives been milked to death? Of course The Sun and Mail will find instances of this happening but it doesn't mean that it is the standard.

 

[janner]

Maybe there's a link between this thread and this one?

 

[glojo]

Of course The Sun and Mail will find instances of this happening but it doesn't mean that it is the standard.

I never saw this program so cannot comment about the content, but I do live in Torquay where Traffic Wardens have been replaced by a private company. If you break the law then you should accept the consequences. This is the ethos these companies work under, they are paid on results (the firm, not the employee) and negotiate the contract with the local authority. Regarding the warden booking cars at the scene of an injury accident, yup... it happened. To me it was unforgivable. The 'Traffic Warden' was in uniform, the road was partially blocked and of course there were cars illegally parked, but to me we should all have a moral duty to help our fellow man\woman. There was an injured person laying in the road and instead of assisting at the scene, this person carried on with issuing tickets. The Managing Director stated their employees are not trained in first aid and they might be sued if they done something wrong! They could however have helped with traffic control to protect others that were helping? The illegally parked vehicles would still be there after the casualty was removed. These firms are all about numbers and they tend to blitz areas where they can issue the most tickets so areas that were regularly patrolled by the official Traffic Wardens are now lawless.

If we go this route then will they patrol the roads in motor vehicles? What happens if a car refuses to stop? If they are on foot and patrol the council estates, then are they hopefully going to clear the streets of dumped vehicles, or will they decide that is a job for the local authority?

There are allegedly hundreds of Police Officers twiddling their thumbs, just waiting to deal with the occasional crime that might one day be committed, so lets see them harassing these law breakers.

John the ranter

 

[BonzoDog]

If you break the law then you should accept the consequences. This is the ethos these companies work under, they are paid on results (the firm, not the employee) and negotiate the contract with the local authority.

I don't see too much of a problem in paid on results, your argument appears to be with the lack of discretion and common sense applied in some case.
How often do we see badly parked vehicles and wish something could be done about it?
How often do the Police get told 'Haven't you got anything better to do?'. Allowing lower paid people with less training to do jobs like this does release the ordinary PC to concentrate on real crime.
I have a son who is an ordinary PC and he is overwhelmed with crime jobs of all sorts.
In some areas there are so many cars that 'beep' the ANPR system that it is impossible for the police to keep up. We all complain about these cars and their users and, as far as I can see, it needs a determined attempt using considerbale resources to make a dent in it.

 

[recycled]

The problem is not with paid on results. It is with target acquisition and aggressive marketing strategy like any other limited or PLC companies having to answer to a board of shareholders.
How many adverts on Tv are full of small print and indeed lies just to get the public to buy in to them.
Free phone for a year e.t.c not telling them you have to subscribe for 18months or so.
0% finance only if you are 90yrs old and can produce your great grand parents(Ok just made that up) but you get the picture.
So what stops the inspectors from creating Mistruths when their balance sheets do not look promising?

 

[R2e]

Oh dear, the "I don't have anything to hide so nothing to fear" response. Give people the powers and they will use them, not always fairly. Sorry, this is just another Labour 'tweak' to avoid addressing the real problem. When did you last see a policeman on the street or out patrolling the motorways?

I find the ad on TV where the couple return to their car and it is crushed in front of them, though excellent technically, extremely chilling. I can see the situation where someone is late renewing their tax (yes, they shouldn't be, and yes they are breaking the law) because they can't afford it, having the only asset they have that's worth anything being destroyed. Confiscate and sell by all means, but why destroy a vehicle if it is fully roadworthy and sellable? The people who habitually flout the law by buying bangers, not registering them in their name or insuring or taxing them will not give a toss, they'll just go out and do it again.

Big Brother is indeed running our society, and it is getting worse.

 

[glojo]

I have a son who is an ordinary PC and he is overwhelmed with crime jobs of all sorts..

I'm sure that most if not all serving officers would agree with that statement, but how does that equate with 'Crime is down, Police numbers are up!'

In some areas there are so many cars that 'beep' the ANPR system that it is impossible for the police to keep up. .

We were the first Local Authority to connect ANPR to the Local Authority CCTV system (Home Office grant) and when first activated it instantly (within ONE hour ) took ALL the operational Police officers off the streets.

I'm all in favour of 'Big Brother' assisting to rid the streets of uninsured vehicles, and don't understand those that object to the use of technology, but what will these civilians do when the ANPR continually flags up something too serious for them to deal with and they get the usual, 'I'm sorry but there is no one available at present, please try again later'

John