International Men's Day

[Deleted96908]

I found the rape section surprising too. We are led to believe it's only men that rape, but it's women too, like you've shown.

I had a situation where a woman 'jumped my bones' too, but luckily she wasn't violent and it ended without issue when I pushed her off.

I also got thumped by the mother of my daughter...I left her now. But I lose as I don't have my daughter living with me.

I think a lot of this stuff goes unreported for obvious reasons.

The women who twist things around so you look like the bad one, know that they will be believed and that the law favours them. Equality? Pah!

I have a distant family member who can best be described as a thug - and that's on a good day. She twists the establishment around her finger, repeatedly playing the defenceless female to the detriment of numerous ex-husbands and partners. When behind it all, she's a rock hard parasite, with nobody safe, men or women. I shudder in her company.

 

[ChrisEdu]

All this talk of manipulative females reminds me how we had a dangerous one living in our street - Dena Thompson aka the Black Widow.

 

[pipmk]

Misogyny is well known about, but how many are aware of the opposite: misandry...dislike of/contempt for men?

YouTube has some revealing vids showing how ingrained this has become in our culture...women mocking men in TV ads, for example. If people talk of having equality, then misandry should not be tolerated imho. Then maybe males will start feeling better about themselves.

Also, it is usually men who lose their kids in a divorce situation. How can this be fair?

These two things can contribute towards men feeling lonely, isolated and worthless...suicidal sometimes. Pills are not the answer.

You are right about ads,but you need to know who writes the ads,men or women before you can read anything in to it. My money would be on men being the authors.

If men were prepared to give up work, as so many women have to, to look after children, then no doubt more men would get custody.

Whatever hobby horse people ride, the situation is never as simple as they make out.

 

[ItalianTuneUp]

You are right about ads,but you need to know who writes the ads,men or women before you can read anything in to it. My money would be on men being the authors.

To know the answer to your speculation one would need to research that question. I agree that it's quite possible that many of the ads were created by men, but I would find it unlikely that women were not also involved in their creation.

However, ask yourself, in this age of political correctness, where one cannot speak freely in public if any word upsets any particular group, whether it's women (misogyny), skin colour/nationality/migrants (racism) etc, why is it 'acceptable' to ridicule men in this way, when ridiculing women in exactly the same way would never be tolerated?

If men were prepared to give up work, as so many women have to, to look after children, then no doubt more men would get custody.

Historically men have always been the breadwinner, and women the nurturers of children, so perhaps things just take time to change?

Again, to answer your question we would need to research court handling of custody to know which set of factors they consider when making custody decisions. If any lawyers are reading this, your knowledge here would be valuable.

Whatever hobby horse people ride, the situation is never as simple as they make out.

True. Did you read the long article above that I provided a link to? From your usage of the term 'hobby horse', I have to assume you haven't. If I'm wrong, then what were your thoughts when you read that article?

This one:
http://www.newdemocracyworld.org/culture/misandry_print.html

 

[pipmk]

To know the answer to your speculation one would need to research that question. I agree that it's quite possible that many of the ads were created by men, but I would find it unlikely that women were not also involved in their creation.

However, ask yourself, in this age of political correctness, where one cannot speak freely in public if any word upsets any particular group, whether it's women (misogyny), skin colour/nationality/migrants (racism) etc, why is it 'acceptable' to ridicule men in this way, when ridiculing women in exactly the same way would never be tolerated?



Historically men have always been the breadwinner, and women the nurturers of children, so perhaps things just take time to change?

Again, to answer your question we would need to research court handling of custody to know which set of factors they consider when making custody decisions. If any lawyers are reading this, your knowledge here would be valuable.



True. Did you read the long article above that I provided a link to? From your usage of the term 'hobby horse', I have to assume you haven't. If I'm wrong, then what were your thoughts when you read that article?

This one:
Misandry: An Obstacle to Solidarity Between Men and Women

The article merely reinforces my point,one source is not enough and dangerous.Any first year student knows this. It is a polemic written by someone who is merely proving his beliefs with carefully selected arguments. Opponents could find just as many dissenting views.

Just one hole picked out as an example in what amounts to an article made of lace. "Women are awarded custody in 83% of cases",it does not say in how many of these cases the man sought custody,therefore the figure is worthless. "Women get child support in 57% of cases", yes, well obviously if they have the children they get the financial support.

There may be some valid points in the article and I believe we do have some problems with the role of men but poorly written articles like this ,far from helping, make the situation worse by being so short on hard evidence,lacking intellectual rigor,and clearly biased.

 

[ChrisEdu]

I wonder how many complaints there would be if the I'm a Celebrity - Aunt Bessie adverts featured two old men making the kind of comments they use, but obviously targeted towards viewing women in the jungle?

 

[ItalianTuneUp]

The article merely reinforces my point,one source is not enough and dangerous.Any first year student knows this. It is a polemic written by someone who is merely proving his beliefs with carefully selected arguments. Opponents could find just as many dissenting views.

Just one hole picked out as an example in what amounts to an article made of lace. "Women are awarded custody in 83% of cases",it does not say in how many of these cases the man sought custody,therefore the figure is worthless. "Women get child support in 57% of cases", yes, well obviously if they have the children they get the financial support.

There may be some valid points in the article and I believe we do have some problems with the role of men but poorly written articles like this ,far from helping, make the situation worse by being so short on hard evidence,lacking intellectual rigor,and clearly biased.

I accept your 'one source' point.

Assuming that you care about this subject enough to comment on it, if you read more widely on the causes of the subjects mentioned here, I would value your opinions.

My point is that serious funding of radical feminist anti-male sentiment appears to have taken place which damages men. Do you agree or disagree on this point alone?

 

[ItalianTuneUp]

I wonder how many complaints there would be if the I'm a Celebrity - Aunt Bessie adverts featured two old men making the kind of comments they use, but obviously targeted towards viewing women in the jungle?

Have you got a link? I'd like to see that.

 

[pipmk]

I accept your 'one source' point.

Assuming that you care about this subject enough to comment on it, if you read more widely on the causes of the subjects mentioned here, I would value your opinions.

My point is that serious funding of radical feminist anti-male sentiment appears to have taken place which damages men. Do you agree or disagree on this point alone?

Totally disagree with the characterisation (or more accurately character assassination) of "radical feminist". Nice right wing term of abuse which says more about the user than the subject.

In my mind when men are still playing "shoot up" games on their computers beyond the age of 14,when men are still living at home in their late 30's, when having the latest phone is more important than saving for their own home,when fashionable clothing is important in your 20's,when men are killing themselves and their partners and their children because a relationship is failing, then nobody has to help in denigrating them, they are doing it all themselves.

"When I was a child I talked like a child,I thought like a child,I reasoned like a child. When I became a man I put the ways of childhood behind me"

Just my opinion.

 

[ItalianTuneUp]

Totally disagree with the characterisation (or more accurately character assassination) of "radical feminist". Nice right wing term of abuse which says more about the user than the subject.

In my mind when men are still playing "shoot up" games on their computers beyond the age of 14,when men are still living at home in their late 30's, when having the latest phone is more important than saving for their own home,when fashionable clothing is important in your 20's,when men are killing themselves and their partners and their children because a relationship is failing, then nobody has to help in denigrating them, they are doing it all themselves.

"When I was a child I talked like a child,I thought like a child,I reasoned like a child. When I became a man I put the ways of childhood behind me"

Just my opinion.

If you are going to bring left wing/right wing politics into a non-partisan issue that affects us all, then I must respectfully cease any further discussion with you. Good day to you sir/madam.

 

[pipmk]

If you are going to bring left wing/right wing politics into a non-partisan issue that affects us all, then I must respectfully cease any further discussion with you. Good day to you sir/madam.

OK substitute women hating (fearing?) for right wing. BTW, male,grandfather of 4,ex rugby player,married to the same woman for nearly 50 years. Still no comment on men so often being authors of their own misfortune?

 

[ChrisEdu]

Have you got a link? I'd like to see that.

They play at the beginning and end of the ad breaks for I'm a Celebrity. I don't know if they're available online.

To give you a flavour though, in one, a woman is looking through binoculars, apparently watching a male shower. The other asks, 'Spotted ****?' The one with the binoculars lowers where she is looking and responds that she can't tell from there. Some of the others are much more suggestive.

 

[Deleted96908]

"When I was a child I talked like a child,I thought like a child,I reasoned like a child. When I became a man I put the ways of childhood behind me"

Just my opinion.

When reason fails, reach for the book.

Just my opinion.

 

[ItalianTuneUp]

Personally, I would separate moderate feminism from radical feminism, as there is a difference.

Moderate feminism, if we say that it aims for equal treatment of women, like equal pay and opportunities, I think most men would support.

However, when it departs from this, and heads towards objectionable male-hating (misandry) ideology, then I think support dwindles, both from men and women.

Later, I will provide examples of this latter case. Examples abound.

Those who seek to target the person, rather than the message they put forward, are using rhetoric, whether they are aware of that or not...'ad hominem' attacks

 

[pipmk]

When reason fails, reach for the book.

Just my opinion.

I notice you don't attempt any reasoning yourself and as a non christian I still find the book contains essential truths as to human behaviour.

In the modern idiom men need to grow up,grow a pair and stop finding reasons to blame other people for their own irresponsibility. They are just too ready to resort to violence either against themselves or others when things get a little tough. The behaviour of the playground.

 

[Deleted96908]

Those who seek to target the person, rather than the message they put forward, are using rhetoric, whether they are aware of that or not...'ad hominem' attacks

It's a sign of intimidation and weakness.

I notice you don't attempt any reasoning yourself

Try here

I still find the book contains essential truths as to human behaviour.

Recommended reading of another kind.

Russell, 1925 , What I believe.

In the modern idiom men need to grow up,grow a pair and stop finding reasons to blame other people for their own irresponsibility. They are just too ready to resort to violence either against themselves or others when things get a little tough. The behaviour of the playground.

You mention violence a lot.

 

[Deleted96908]

Actually pipmk, I am going to apologise for shooting from the hip there.

I don't disagree fundamentally with what you say other than men's problems often stem from their weaknesses. I am open to my weaknesses and if more were, particularly on this forum, I believe we'd see less of the issues you describe.

 

[ItalianTuneUp]

It's a sign of intimidation and weakness.

Exactly. A technique used by the ignorant. When you can't reason and debate nicely then just attack the person ha ha

Playground behaviour lol

 

[pipmk]

Actually pipmk, I am going to apologise for shooting from the hip there.

I don't disagree fundamentally with what you say other than men's problems often stem from their weaknesses. I am open to my weaknesses and if more were, particularly on this forum, I believe we'd see less of the issues you describe.

Thank you,a modern problem for men seems to be that bravado has had to replace achievement,excessive masculinity used to mask feelings of powerlessness. It used to be a man's job to work,provide for his family whilst his wife worked in the home raising the children. This was the pattern ever since industrialisation and certainly within living memory It is our folk memory from our parents and grandparents and has therefore an important place in our inherited view as to what it is to be a man.

De industrialisation and the growth of machinery has fractured this,not to mention the economic need for wives to work. Nobody was ever asked if that was what they wanted,nobody was ever asked what the consequences would be on men's view of themselves or what effect it would have on their relationship with women who could achieve economic and social equality.
So men sometimes appear to take flight in what I regard as childish behaviour in order to assert their masculinity. Some become women haters and or women abusers,some kill themselves over setbacks which a generation earlier would have seemed much less unconquerable.

A terrible thing but our parents/grandparents/great grandparents had major wars in which no matter how minor their individual parts,they could confirm their masculinity in their own eyes and the eyes of the world. No such affirmation achievements are available today to most men.

To denigrate men in adverts is a poor thing,to denigrate anybody is an equally poor act, but to allow divide and conquer tactics by blaming "militant feminists" or some other easy target is to dodge the real problem.We are too ready when we feel inadequate or threatened to find some group to blame,a human instinct but a very base and ineffective one.

It may be that the problem will go as folk memory about a man's role fade with time. It may be that the rising generation are creating a new role with their games,technology and style led lives,that a new form of equality between the sexes is being and will be formed where roles are more fluid. I don't know.However I do know looking to find scapegoats without addressing the economic circumstances is pointless.

 

[Deleted96908]

To denigrate men in adverts is a poor thing,to denigrate anybody is an equally poor act, but to allow divide and conquer tactics by blaming "militant feminists" or some other easy target is to dodge the real problem.We are too ready when we feel inadequate or threatened to find some group to blame,a human instinct but a very base and ineffective one.

I don't think anybody here is blaming women or feminists or any other group for the problems men face. Simply stating that problems do exist and immaterial of the reasons you, I, or anybody else sees as the root cause, far too many men live in pain and make the ultimate sacrifice when help is not at hand.

As to why help is not at hand? Well, just look around you on MBClub - lots of frustrated egos bashing each other at every opportunity. And although we shouldn't assume that the ratio of aggression to passivity that we see here is representative of male society as a whole, I do think it goes some way to showing that men use aggression to conceal other aspects of their personalities. Aspects which they choose to conceal because they believe them to reveal weakness.

Whereas I believe concealment is a weakness and openness is a strength - which is counter to what many of those that will read this post will believe to be true. And that's a shame because I feel stronger for discussing my fears and sorry at the same time for those that conceal theirs.