Intruder taken out...

[MOCAŠ]

If I caught someone pinching my alloys and I asked them to f*ck off and they went for me, I'd think it personally reasonable to try and kill them if they attacked me.

You're confusing theft with assault. At the point he goes to attack you, the thief becomes an assailant. It is the assault against which you would be defending yourself, not the theft.

The question is, would you still feel justified in shooting/stabbing/beating to death the thief just because you caught him in the process of stealing the wheels?

PS: I love the idea that you would ask them to f*ck off! "I say, would you mind terribly f*ucking off, there's a good chap."

 

[BenzedUP]

And BMW drivers.

.

You would be surprised there, some BMW drivers are allot better than MB drivers, I have allot of friends who drive BMW's.

 

[MOCAŠ]

I have allot of friends who drive BMW's.

I believe therapy is available.

 

[st4]

You're confusing theft with assault. At the point he goes to attack you, the thief becomes an assailant. It is the assault against which you would be defending yourself, not the theft.

The question is, would you still feel justified in shooting/stabbing/beating to death the thief just because you caught him in the process of stealing the wheels?

PS: I love the idea that you would ask them to f*ck off! "I say, would you mind terribly f*ucking off, there's a good chap."

Theft and assault are often linked.

Imagine late at night you hear someone rummaging around, you say "terribly sorry old bean would you mind leaving". Their reaction won't be "by jove, terribly sorry, I will scoot on right away".

More likely you'll see a bat in their hand destined for your head if you cross their path, the violence will be premeditated in their part. Or if they had a nice mini machette in their hands, you will have taken a golf club down, what would you do, whack them before they spot you, or try and be "reasonable". Golf club, in the skull to me wins.

No, I wouldn't kill someone for stealing an alloy, but if they attacked you, which is fairly likely, I would either run or try and get them.

 

[BenzedUP]

I believe therapy is available.

Exactly, these kind of MB drivers I was talking about...

 

[John]

To eradicate them from society? If so, how would this be accomplished?

I would say so - permanent incarceration I would say with access to nothing more than a bucket, bread and water.

If any mis-carriages of justice occur, no one has been executed.

With 63,000,000 people in this country, removing the estimated 500,000 'career criminals' that we have from society would cause what problems for society?

 

[MOCAŠ]

I would say so - permanent incarceration I would say with access to nothing more than a bucket, bread and water.

If any mis-carriages of justice occur, no one has been executed.

With 63,000,000 people in this country, removing the estimated 500,000 'career criminals' that we have from society would cause what problems for society?

OK, this sounds like a more reasonable approach. At least we're defining who we're talking about, rather than just proposing to round up anyone whose face doesn't fit.

I've even a feeling that the cost of keeping them locked up for life would be outweighed by the overall benefit to society.

But what incentive would someone then have not to kill someone who could lead to them being convicted for the umpteenth time, if both crimes carried real life sentences?

 

[John]

Personally, I don't think the price will be too high given what you are trading for i.e. very little crime.

It's a bit chicken and egg i.e. deterrent vs. incentive, but if you go and round up and remove the 500,000 criminals, you are left with those potential criminals who have not offended yet, but a lot more police left with a lot more time to build a visible presence and be ready to respond a lot more quickly.

I don't believe you can ever stop crime as you will always, for example, have those born with the 'warrior gene' mixed with the other essential for a psychopath stirred up by a bad childhood, who are then able to kill and feel nothing within the right conditions, but then no deterrent would stop these in any case as they are pre-disposed to it.

If you are saying "what's to stop a 'new' burglar knowing they are going to down for life and so might as well do a GTA4", I don't believe the kind of people who do it even think about it or the consequences.

However, should that happen, what is the offset between those of the 500,000 who commit murder now vs. -500,000 and just the 'new murderers'?

 

[Dieselman]

I don't believe you can ever stop crime as you will always, for example, have those born with the 'warrior gene'

I think you mean predator gene.

Plenty of people have warrior tendencies but don't steal from people or commit crimes against them.

Back to the original topic.
I'm sure the householder didn't deliberately mean to kill the burglar/assailant, but in hindsight deserves a medal, He's done the World a favour.
The burglar rolled the dice and lost.

 

[Charles Morgan]

Perhaps a remote island where they have to build there own community and grow food to feed themselves with starvation as the alternative, back to medieval times when living was tough might make them appreciate and respect our current society.

Do we never learn? We've done that before and we ended up with Australia.

 

[Richard Elliot]

I think you mean predator gene.

Plenty of people have warrior tendencies but don't steal from people or commit crimes against them.

Back to the original topic.
I'm sure the householder didn't deliberately mean to kill the burglar/assailant, but in hindsight deserves a medal, He's done the World a favour.
The burglar rolled the dice and lost.

No he means the warrior gene, that's its name, commonly associated with psychopathy but in the great anglo-saxonic tradition given a glamorous name.

 

[Richard Elliot]

Its very likely a "pikey" will steal. Its endemic in their culture to defraud and be criminal. Hence my reasonable placement of the word "pikey".

I'll use the word thief from now on

Yes that would be better.

"Slang expert Tony Thorne says "pikey" was being used as far back as the 16th Century but has only become more offensive in the mainstream in the past four or five years.
"Teenagers have been using it for the last few years to replace 'chav'. It's used pejoratively as someone who is sub-proletariat like 'gypsy' or 'gyppo' was used in the 1940s and 50s."
When used now in urban circles, it usually means a person is beyond the class system, someone without an identity who doesn't matter, and is off the social radar, Thorne suggests.

"The language of snobbishness and class distinction has come right back, with words like 'posh' or 'pleb' or 'prol', words I thought had disappeared in the late 60s.
"This is the language of social discrimination and it's quite shocking that this language is now being bandied about. It started with 'chav' and then the 'posh' stuff about David Cameron and Boris Johnson."
Often these words are used by people who have always been prejudiced and nasty and who are now feeling they can safely express themselves again, he says, although this "petty snobbishness" has always been lurking below the surface of public debate.

 

[markjay]

You have the right to use 'reasonable force' to protect your property, not just your person.

But... given that current vagueness as to what constitutes 'reasonable force' against an assailant waving a machete, I would not even go there if an unarmed thief is just after the old kit from your garden shed...

 

[Scott_F]

So for example, if some pikey steals spinals wheels, he confronts them, and they attack, he should be able to deal with them in whatever manner he see's fit. Beating, stabbing, covering in petrol, his choice.

So an alloy wheel thief who throws a punch should be beaten, stabbed, doused in petrol and set alight ?

Would such treatment be meted out to wheel thieves in general or would you reserve it especially for "pikeys" ??

Another one of your rather "out there" posts !

 

[Spinal]

So an alloy wheel thief who throws a punch should be beaten, stabbed, doused in petrol and set alight ?

Yes.

Would such treatment be meted out to wheel thieves in general or would you reserve it especially for "pikeys" ??

All wheel thieves...

 

[Scott_F]

^^^

I think that a bit of protocol is important here.

Would you stab them before dousing them in petrol or go straight for the burn ?

 

[Howard]

You can't be seen to be overdoing it .... you have to be reasonable , burning someone alive is going to be frowned on.

Knife first , petrol after.

 

[tali]

I belive the public don't care whether intruder is armed or not - and the self defence is quite simply a red herring
The public feel they have carte blanche to attack/kill any intruder - "my house my rules"

 

[st4]

So an alloy wheel thief who throws a punch should be beaten, stabbed, doused in petrol and set alight ?

Yes. If not getting desturbed in the act then attacking someone, I would say they are fair game for the above.

Would such treatment be meted out to wheel thieves in general or would you reserve it especially for "pikeys" ??

You pick