Investments down again.

[Red C220]

China this... China that... I am sick of China!

I come all the way over here to the UK and I hear the exact same things that are said in the U.S.A.

China is sooooo great... I mean look at all the quality stuff they make! Anyone care to take a ride on the Chinese high speed rail? Heck we got roller coasters over here in the states that go faster and have lasted decades LONGER than China's high speed rail!

China couldn't even "fix" a sandwich.

Don't read into my posts that China are great, they simply have a volume of available workforce that are so cheap and plentyfull it's no longer viable for western democratic countries to compete with them in manufacturing low cost high volume items.

Especially whilst they still control the exchange rate of their own currency vs US$.

It's a statement of fact, not huraah for the Chinese and how productive they are.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

It's based on value not volume, what we do manufacture is cutting edge and tends to be low volume high value products and services. Those items that really have no relevance to the every day person on the UK. Well not immediately.

I understand your sentiments but low production, high value doesn't create thousands of jobs which is my point.

 

[Red C220]

I understand your sentiments but low production, high value doesn't create thousands of jobs which is my point.

I addressed that in an earlier posts. There are plenty of jobs, sadly most brits would find these demeaning and choose not to do them.

I've just shut a business down this month and laid off staff, I simply can't make the business pay in this climate. Staffing costs are such that it's no longer viable to operate.

That's nothing to do with lack of manufacturing. It's the expectation that a forklift truck operator should be paid £25,000 a year plus pension, plus holidays, plus sick pay, plus bonuses. It's just not viable.

That same operator in China will be paid £2,500 a year. Therefore they can sell the goods for less - we can't compete with that.

If we had some form of national pride and only bought goods manufactured in the UK we might not be in this mess. But the moment you walk into a store like comet and are faced with a frdige made in China for sale at £600 and one made in the UK to the same spec that has to be sold for £3,000 to cover the manufacturing costs what are you going to buy?

Your living in cloud cuckoo land, we're in a whole heap of crap right now and it's not getting better in the short term.

 

[grober]

The initial trigger for this was probably the Tea Party's efforts last week to prevent President Obama's measures to stimulate growth in the American economy. Thanks a bunch guys!

http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/ot-off-topic-forums/114362-usa-crisis.html

 

[Deleted member 37751]

I addressed that in an earlier posts. There are plenty of jobs, sadly most brits would find these demeaning and choose not to do them.

I've just shut a business down this month and laid off staff, I simply can't make the business pay in this climate. Staffing costs are such that it's no longer viable to operate.

That's nothing to do with lack of manufacturing. It's the expectation that a forklift truck operator should be paid £25,000 a year plus pension, plus holidays, plus sick pay, plus bonuses. It's just not viable.

Sorry, yes I saw your earlier post regarding people not wanting to work unless it's for a 'high' wage.

My point is that (taking into account your findings on the BBC) there are very few big manufacturers anymore who employ hundreds/thousands and who actually make something to sell.

To touch on your earlier point that people don't want work, I'll give you an example;

I am a carpenter by trade and when the EU was opened up to Poland et al we had a real struggle on getting good wages when I was sub-contracting.
This was because they would rent a house out and share it between ten or so, while their families were back home. These living arrangements then gave them the scope to undercut our wages by half, so do you think that I should have had to work for half of what I was used to? With a mortgage, wife and three children?

I understand your point of view, but I'm afraid it's not always black and White in my eyes.

 

[nick mercedes]

Don't read into my posts that China are great, they simply have a volume of available workforce that are so cheap and plentyfull it's no longer viable for western democratic countries to compete with them in manufacturing low cost high volume items.

We can compete with them, it's just UK PLC and it's obsession with short term greed that has led to the destruction of manufacturing and the wealth that creates.

We need to bring back large scale maufacturing if we are going to survive.

 

[WDB124066]

The initial trigger for this was probably the Tea Party's efforts last week to prevent President Obama's measures to stimulate growth in the American economy. Thanks a bunch guys!

http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/ot-off-topic-forums/114362-usa-crisis.html

Of course!

 

[nick mercedes]

IIf we had some form of national pride and only bought goods manufactured in the UK we might not be in this mess. But the moment you walk into a store like comet and are faced with a frdige made in China for sale at £600 and one made in the UK to the same spec that has to be sold for £3,000 to cover the manufacturing costs what are you going to buy?

You could not buy a UK made fridge if you wanted to, all the co's who made them were sold to foreign companys who asset stripped the factories before switching production abroad (mainly to Europe).

In fact if you walked into Comet I doubt you could buy *anything* made in the UK, unless they sell Henry hoovers.

All these giant shops and huge warehouse that dominate the landscape are just full of imported junk that we lap up because it's cheap, even if it does fall to bits 3 years later.

 

[nick mercedes]

People are just obsessed with cheapness now, the lowest price is always the best, even if you are just buying rubbbish.

A bit like buying cheepo brake pads from some faceless national chain because they're a £1 less than the real ones you could get from your local MB parts dept....

 

[davethemus]

‪Tony Benn -- The issue is Thatcher‬‏ - YouTube

i think tony summed it up perfectly here, new labour just carried on where the tories left off.

 

[WDB124066]

So where would you be putting your money; importers, Chinese whiteware stock - bit risky......

 

[The _Don]

You could not buy a UK made fridge if you wanted to, all the co's who made them were sold to foreign companys who asset stripped the factories before switching production abroad (mainly to Europe).

In fact if you walked into Comet I doubt you could buy *anything* made in the UK, unless they sell Henry hoovers.

All these giant shops and huge warehouse that dominate the landscape are just full of imported junk that we lap up because it's cheap, even if it does fall to bits 3 years later.

How wrong you are - and there are plenty of others.

Naim Audio - British manufacturer of high-fidelity audio electronics

 

[nick mercedes]

So where would you be putting your money; importers, Chinese whiteware stock - bit risky......

I'm going to buy lots of tinned food, so when the economy crashes and anarchy reigns I can live in my warehouse and eat rice pudding.

 

[Red C220]

My point is that (taking into account your findings on the BBC) there are very few big manufacturers anymore who employ hundreds/thousands and who actually make something to sell.

There is a reason for this, it simply isn't financially viable.

You cannot start setting up manufacturing plants that pay wages required by workforce in the UK producing goods so expensive that no one will buy them.

Itis the fundmental basis of supply and demand.

The only manufacturing we have remaining is actually assembly.

Japanese car makers are a good example. Lets take Honda who assemble cars here employed UK workers.

The only reason they do this is to avoid punitive import duties on their vehicles. HM Gov said to them - well, if you open a plant here and employ English people we won't charge you import duty over and above VAT on your cars and you can sell them here. Great, but all the sales go to a Japanese company - but it does create a few jobs.

 

[nick mercedes]

How wrong you are - and there are plenty of others.

Naim Audio - British manufacturer of high-fidelity audio electronics

You won't find Nain in Comet, in fact you might be surprised to learn that most "British" hifi is made in China now:

Quad Electroacoustics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Another world leading industry we have allowed to slip through our fingers...

 

[Red C220]

We need to bring back large scale maufacturing if we are going to survive.

How do you propose we do this Nick, and what are we going to manufacture that we can do so effeciently enough that anyone would actually want to buy it?

Other than armaments that is, we seem to do terribly well selling items of war around the world as we are the 4th largest arms dealer on the planet.

 

[Red C220]

You won't find Nain in Comet, in fact you might be surprised to learn that most "British" hifi is made in China now:

Quad Electroacoustics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Another world leading industry we have allowed to slip through our fingers...

Exactly, your even providing the information to back up my points. The UK can no longer financially compete with these "super factories"

 

[nick mercedes]

There is a reason for this, it simply isn't financially viable.

Germany (where wages are higher than here) proves otherwise.

There was no need for the UK to lose it's manuacturing base, and we need to get it back.

 

[nick mercedes]

Exactly, your even providing the information to back up my points. The UK can no longer financially compete with these "super factories"

We can compete, but it requires will, and it requires consumers to look past all the pretend Britishness of these pretend British brands and demand that they are actually made here (like they were).

 

[MicB]

So the Euro, Dollar et al seem in freefall. Pundits are predicting global financial implosion. Is this the time to bale out of the stockmarket and, if so, what does one do with the realised dosh?
We don't own shares directly but have quite a bit wrapped up in various bonds and ISA's. None of it would be subject to CGT.

Now look what you have started......down today.....up tomorrow.....down the day after......up....

Confidence and/or the lack of it......most household incomes and the economy generally are not good and it will be a long haul to what we might regard as ''normal'' but things in reality do not change overnight only perceptions.

We all have to ''hang in there''. Keep pedalling.

Mic