Is 2 litres enough?

Discussion in 'OT (OFF Topic) Forums' started by Meldrew2, May 23, 2018.

  1. Meldrew2

    Meldrew2 Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    1,972
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2008
    Location:
    Southport
    Car:
    Mine: BMW X1 2.0 M-Sport & BMW 120d Sport Plus Cabrio Hers: BMW X1 1.8 SE (sorry, guys)
    I've been on the receiving end of some ribbing about my 2 litre BMW diesels. Comments about milk and fruit juice, for instance, but I've been quite happy with the car's performance and refinement. The 8 speed auto box is a great match for the engine, and it's more than capable of overtaking briskly when called upon.

    Currently my X1 is being repaired (after being hit while it was parked) and I have been lent a Mercedes GLA with a 2 litre diesel. Allegedly an "equivalent". Because the auto box is nowhere nearly as keen to down-change, the car feels woolly and underpowered by comparison.

    Just my observation...

     
  2. grober

    grober MB Club Veteran

    Messages:
    24,110
    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Location:
    Perth, Scotland
    Car:
    W204 C200CDI Estate
    Most turbo charged diesels can be persuaded to yield up to 100bhp/litre with corresponding torque figures, which should be ample to row along any 2 litre medium sized car adequately. Driveability may be another matter and it may be that in more recent models order to achieve certain emission figures some driving characteristics may have suffered?
     
    Meldrew2 likes this.
  3. BTB 500

    BTB 500 MB Club Veteran

    Messages:
    17,501
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2005
    Location:
    Berkshire
    Car:
    R129 SL500, W639 Vito 120, S203 C230
    Being turbocharged, the power output from a modern '2 litre diesel' varies enormously depending on the state of tune. So you need to make sure you're comparing like with like.

    From a quick Google your X1 M-Sport gives 190 bhp. A GLA is either 136 bhp (200) or 177 bhp (220). Not surprising therefore that it would feel less lively.
     
    Meldrew2 and Dryce like this.
  4. Dryce

    Dryce MB Club Veteran

    Messages:
    5,644
    Joined:
    May 17, 2006
    Car:
    ..
    ^^^^ This.

    Turbo diesels vary a lot. Transmisions vary as well - even where it's the same underlying version.

    My current 3.0 litre VW diesel allegedly puts out just 204ps - they do 2.0 litre diesels with that sort of output. Other 3.0 litre diesel setups manage well over 300PS

    BMW provides a faster shifting variant of the ZF 8 speed on some cars (either as an option or as standard depending on model).
     
  5. Alex

    Alex Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    2,833
    Joined:
    May 17, 2010
    Car:
    E55
    Thanks god milk doesn't come in 0.9L bottles otherwise I wouldn't be able to drive my Smart car as comfortably as I do.

    2 litres is another matter though. Suffer!

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Dryce

    Dryce MB Club Veteran

    Messages:
    5,644
    Joined:
    May 17, 2006
    Car:
    ..
    To me 'tune' brings up an image of changing the diameter of a component or a new nozzle or exhaust or making some adjustment or a different cam profile. These days it's all about digital parameters and feedback sensors.

    Telling thing is the engine torque or power graphs that have straight horizontal peak lines instead of curved peaks. The output is all managed via the ECU and its mappings.
     
  7. PaulG

    PaulG Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    866
    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2002
    Location:
    Epsom Downs
    Car:
    ML 320 W164
    The perception of performance is easily influenced by loads of factors, noise, low-end torque, transmission responsiveness, throttle tracking etc, etc..

    The most obvious way for a manufacturer to make a car feel "fast" is to change the tracking of the throttle such that when you give it say, 1/5 throttle, what the engine actually sees is 4/5 throttle. As a driver, you are impressed, and crucially, you are impressed on the original test drive from the car showroom. You might even be impressed enough to buy it... Job done!
    I've noticed Audis do this, but it's been a while since I've driven a Beemer so I can't comment on the latest ones. I seem to remember it went pretty well, so I guess they were at it even then.

    The only way to compare ACTUAL performance is to do some ACTUAL performance tests, relying on the Butt-Dyno, is just not good enough..
     
  8. Dryce

    Dryce MB Club Veteran

    Messages:
    5,644
    Joined:
    May 17, 2006
    Car:
    ..
    Anybody remember threads on 'Sprint Booster'?

    Sprint Booster W219 CLS 350

    I'm sure there was some discussion on this even further back (10 years ago?) where some forum members procured them.
     
  9. HITECH

    HITECH Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    199
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2014
    Location:
    coldest place in scotland
    Car:
    C220 CDI
    Loving that wee sticker. Quite funny lol

     
  10. DrFeelgood

    DrFeelgood MB Club Veteran

    Messages:
    5,735
    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Car:
    MB
    I remember 10 years ago a lot of forum members fitted them.

    Snake oil.
     
  11. AMGeed

    AMGeed MB Club Veteran

    Messages:
    9,155
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2008
    Location:
    Bournemouth/Poole Dorset
    Car:
    2004 W211 E55K ///AMG
    Lol, Bruno had that on his C63.
     
    C36fan likes this.
  12. Happytalk73

    Happytalk73 Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    4,768
    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2015
    Location:
    South West Scotland
    Car:
    Vito
    Yeah, and his forum signature too. :)
     
    C36fan and AMGeed like this.
  13. OP
    OP
    Meldrew2

    Meldrew2 Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    1,972
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2008
    Location:
    Southport
    Car:
    Mine: BMW X1 2.0 M-Sport & BMW 120d Sport Plus Cabrio Hers: BMW X1 1.8 SE (sorry, guys)
    Milk and Juice don't have turbochargers.....
     
    Happytalk73 likes this.
  14. Flyinspanner

    Flyinspanner Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    351
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2015
    Location:
    Ruislip
    Car:
    W215 CL500, W168 A-140.
    My 2L Subaru GTB had two turbos.....plenty brisk enough :)
     
  15. Alex

    Alex Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    2,833
    Joined:
    May 17, 2010
    Car:
    E55
    Bruno is a living legend.

    But he never had that sticker.
     
    C36fan and Happytalk73 like this.
  16. AMGeed

    AMGeed MB Club Veteran

    Messages:
    9,155
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2008
    Location:
    Bournemouth/Poole Dorset
    Car:
    2004 W211 E55K ///AMG
    ^ I stand corrected.:D
     
    C36fan likes this.
  17. Happytalk73

    Happytalk73 Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    4,768
    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2015
    Location:
    South West Scotland
    Car:
    Vito
    Living legend??? Not sure, but he’s a ‘Hugger’ :D

    Anyhow, my Sig comment still stands. :)
     
    Alex, C36fan and clk320x like this.
  18. clk320x

    clk320x MB Club Veteran

    Messages:
    5,508
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2016
    Location:
    East Midlands/South-Wales
    Car:
    CLK320 Coupé (209) - E320 CDI Wagon (211)
    Who is Bruno?
     
    C36fan likes this.
  19. Happytalk73

    Happytalk73 Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    4,768
    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2015
    Location:
    South West Scotland
    Car:
    Vito
    Canny believe you had to ask (Harry) :D
     
    C36fan and clk320x like this.
  20. AMGeed

    AMGeed MB Club Veteran

    Messages:
    9,155
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2008
    Location:
    Bournemouth/Poole Dorset
    Car:
    2004 W211 E55K ///AMG
    This is the Bruno in question. Real nice guy with an E55, C63 and and a CLS63 Biturbo.

    C36fan
     
    C36fan and clk320x like this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.