Is 2 litres enough?

[Deleted member 113659]

This is the Bruno in question. Real nice guy with an E55, C63 and and a CLS63 Biturbo.

C36fan

.........and a mighty beautiful W447 Vito with a 2.1 litre engine. How ironic.

 

[clk320x]

.........and a mighty beautiful W447 Vito with a 2.1 litre engine. How ironic.

Juice doesn’t come in 2.1 litres

 

[PXW]

Back to the OP's question, I think Bill has it right - look at the figures. But even similar power output and theoretically similar acceleration don't mean similar driving experiences. The learning for me on this was switching some years back form my S211 280 Cdi (3 litre turbodiesel, about 197bhp iirc) to a BMW F11 520d SE Touring (the ubiquitous BMW 4 cylinder turbo diesel 2 litre, pushing out c 184bhp, again iirc).

Manufacturer's quoted performance was again similar, but the real world driving experience was not. The key lay in the torque produced - unsurprisingly the larger engine had more - and the manner of the performance; so while the BMW could (almost) match the Merc, it was always working harder for its performance, and situations where the torque really told - motorway hills, mid-range acceleration, heavier loads - left the BMW feeling a little gutless by comparison. This also meant that at best I got only about a 10% improvement in fuel consumption, though I fully accept that a more self controlled driver would do better.

Is 2 litres enough? Real world, I would say yes, unless you are regularly towing or carrying heavy loads, and in three years and over 70k miles I can't point to times when the BMW failed to perform. But personally, I was more than happy to find myself back in a 3 litre V6.

 

[C36fan]

Nah 2l ain't enough look!

 

[Deleted member 113659]

Bruno is in Da room.

 

[gIzzE]

The BMW N47 2 litre diesel is a pretty good engine for a a 4cyl diesel, I have had it on Fiona's X3, with the ZF 8 Speed auto it works pretty well.

However, if you stick a CRD-T+ box on it, it will amaze you what this engine can do.

I put mine on a rolling road as it seemed so quick for what it was and it came back at 224hp, which doesn't sound much, but it transformed the car, it felt lighter, it never struggled in any scenario and 0-60mph was down to around 7 seconds, which for every day is plenty good enough.

For me though it is refinement, 2 litre is fine, but 4 cyl diesel is something I can't get used to.
I am really struggling with the BMW 6cyl diesel as well.

I thought Mercedes were bringing out a load of new inline 6 engines a couple of years back, 2.1 litre, 2.4 litre and 3.0 litre versions were announced, super light, super efficient etc. etc.
What happened to those?

 

[grober]

Mercedes have recently brought out straight six petrol and diesel engines first seen on their top S class models but hopefully destined to percolate down to the lower levels of the model food chain at some point. Like many engines they are part of a modular family with 4 and possibly even 3 cylinder versions sharing the same bore stroke ratio block construction.

 

[TheFoX]

I used to think that 2 was ample, but have discovered that more is better. My Sierra 2.0GL was trumped by the 2.9l XR4x4, and my 2.1 C220 was trumped by the 3.0 CLS350.

For some reason, I seem to go through the frugal stage then think, 'What the hell!', and buy something more tasty.

 

[gIzzE]

For some reason, I seem to go through the frugal stage then think, 'What the hell!', and buy something more tasty.

I'm the same.

All my more frugal cars have cost me far more in overall ownership as I swap them every 6-12 months as boredom sets in. Actually, I don't think it is boredom, I think it is just "I wish I had bought the xxxxx model."

I have had my E350 estate for two and half years now, that is the longest I have owned any car. I had decided to sell it, but looking round I can't find something I prefer that is within budget. I will have to wait for the E43 estate to drop to my price point I guess.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

What a weird world we live in, when we question whether a turbocharged 2 litre engine is enough for a reasonably compact car, and even worse, others (including friends) rib owners about it?!

It should be more than any of us need in almost all situations. Of course exceptions apply.

 

[TheFoX]

What a weird world we live in, when we question whether a turbocharged 2 litre engine is enough for a reasonably compact car, and even worse, others (including friends) rib owners about it?!

It should be more than any of us need in almost all situations. Of course exceptions apply.

The exceptions, of course, included BMW M3s (not one that cuts out or catches fire), Audi S Line specials (not those wannabe fast cars that take 12 seconds to reach sixty) and Ford Mondeos/Vauxhall Insignias. There's nothing worse than being tailgated by one of these cars, especially if the driver has acne.

(I was driving home in a Ford Puma one night, when the git behind me was so close that he kept knocking my rear view mirror with his chin).

Also, I personally think sticking a 2.1 litre engine in a CLS is a little bit lame. If a car looks fast, it should be fast, and a 0-60 time of around 8 seconds is slow by todays standards. Sorry if I offend anyone on this board who has a CLS220, but that is just my opinion. You don't buy a Maclaren F1 then shoehorn a Fiesta 1.6i engine into it.

 

[gIzzE]

What a weird world we live in, when we question whether a turbocharged 2 litre engine is enough for a reasonably compact car, and even worse, others (including friends) rib owners about it?!

It should be more than any of us need in almost all situations. Of course exceptions apply.

I think the problem for me is most of the 2 litre cars I have owned have been 4cyl diesels, it skews my view of the topic.

I have used a BMW 328i for a week with the 2 litre engine, which was really good, mates C200 that is mapped to 250hp is also really, really nice to drive, and I had an A4 avant with the 2.0T engine that was mapped to 270hp and would have been OK if it was for the fact it was FWD and torque steer was terrible, but the engine was sweet.

However, there is still a very obvious difference to the way the car feels with a 4cyl petrol and a 6 cyl petrol.

I would take chose a C300 4cyl over a C350d 6cyl every time, if they offered it here of course.

I just don't like losing the refinement you have to put up with when going diesel.

 

[Alex]

What a weird world we live in, when we question whether a turbocharged 2 litre engine is enough for a reasonably compact car, and even worse, others (including friends) rib owners about it?!

It should be more than any of us need in almost all situations. Of course exceptions apply.

I don't think anyone on here is really that bored to seriously rib OP's car choices. I recall him raising this subject before when he had a Mercedes. He now drives a different brand car but is raising this topic again, in this forum.

Maybe what he really wants to tell us is that his current choice 2L engine is much better than his previous one.

A-ha! But we are on a Mercedes forum so we defend our brand with what OP can't argue with - displacement.

Qui gladio ferit, gladio perit

 

[Meldrew2]

...Maybe what he really wants to tell us is that his current choice 2L engine is much better than his previous one...

Not at all. Having moved from a 3.7 petrol Mercedes to a 2.0 diesel BMW I found both to be more than adequate. It was on driving a 2.0 diesel Mercedes that I felt a big drop in power, but as Bill (BTB500) pointed out - the GLA200 at 136bhp was not truly comparable.

Maybe the question "is 180bhp enough?"

I love my X1 - but - amare et sapere vix deo conceditur.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

It should be more than any of us need in almost all situations. Of course exceptions apply.

Yes Rob, owning more than 11 litres in cc in two motors is certainly an exception isn’t it pal!

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Yes Rob, owning more than 11 litres in cc in two motors is certainly an exception isn’t it pal!

Lee, you do need an exception to prove the rule

 

[clk320x]

Lee, you do need an exception to prove the rule

Don’t you have a C32 too?

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Don’t you have a C32 too?

I had one for 10 years or so, but Nobby (the C32) is with someone else now

 

[Meldrew2]

On the bright side - my X1 is just back from the bodyshop. Shiny, and bereft of dents.

The on-board computer is warning of battery discharge - which does not happen when the car is parked at the airport for several weeks - so I imagine it's been short stop/start in and out of the paint shop etc. Hopefully a couple of runs tomorrow should sort it.

 

[Londonscottish]

I used to think that 2 was ample, but have discovered that more is better. My Sierra 2.0GL was trumped by the 2.9l XR4x4, and my 2.1 C220 was trumped by the 3.0 CLS350.

For some reason, I seem to go through the frugal stage then think, 'What the hell!', and buy something more tasty.

I started off in a 1.3 Mini (well, a 1275 to be exact) then graduated onto a 1.5 Sprint, a 1.5 Sud, and a 1.5 33. I then had some 2.0 Chavlaliers followed by two 2.0 200SX's (with turbo's). But that wasn't nearly enough and I've since gone 4.3 (twice), 5.0 and now 5.5.

The only way is up.