is light hearted racism ever ok?

[Dryce]

Who remembers 'It aint half hot mum'? - full of racial stereotypes (and other stereotypes) and lots of insults to the Asians - IIRC the pankah wallah came in for the most stick.

ISTR the whole point was that the punka walla was the lowliest character - abused and derided by everyone who thought themselves above him - and yet the only one who wasn't an idiot.

 

[Deleted96908]

is light hearted racism ever ok?

Sure it is. Same as being half robbed, half murdered and half beaten up, is ok.

But JC is only being JC. And the BBC is only being the BBC. We put them there, indirectly I'll grant you and if we want to change things, we need to lobby the govt, or more likely the next govt and get them to change the BBC's culture.

I guess, unless you are in the TV industry, you won't have seen the recent (12 months) lecture by an ex BBC commissioner who resigned because of the practices there. He cited widespread cronyism, and a deep lack of talent amongst senior staff. Quoting meetings where the key decision makers had never made a tv programme, held a camera, or mic, much less run for the crew's bacon sandwiches at the crack of dawn on a frosty morning. The crew, many of them earning less in a year than most of you spend on mid range cars.

And during this time, the BBC has gone from being one of the best global broadcasters, to one of the.. er, let's just say, chasing pack. Isolated incidents apart (iPlayer, sport, education) the BBC is now so lowly ranked that most folks seeking quality TV will turn to the US networks, and Ed China and his mate. Netflix (House of Cards) and AMC's Breaking Bad, not to mention Nurse Jackie, Sopranos, the Wire, Dexter (early seasons) and so on, put our multi billion £ corporation to shame.

And it ain't going to change until the govt changes. And that won't happen until you make it happen. And yes, I know the BBC is accused of being left wing, and therefore won't they get worse under labour? No, because the BBC is not left wing. It's a mini fascist state that exists only for its own benefit and for the benefit of its leaders. All wrapped up in the notion that it's here to serve the people. It is. Just, not all the people.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

... the BBC is now so lowly ranked that most folks seeking quality TV will turn to the US networks, and Ed China and his mate. Netflix (House of Cards) and AMC's Breaking Bad, not to mention Nurse Jackie, Sopranos, the Wire, Dexter (early seasons) and so on, put our multi billion £ corporation to shame.

I disagree. BBC is still my channel of choice for quality (except for F1 while they insist on keeping the Irish bearded dwarf - is that a racist comment?). What the BBC really benefits from IMO is that I can enjoy a whole programme without numerous breaks for ads. I've tried watching most of those shows you listed but found them bland and uninteresting - all glitter and no substance. Sorry, just not for me.

 

[Dryce]

Sure it is. Same as being half robbed, half murdered and half beaten up, is ok.

Not a good comparison.

You generally don't get half robbed, murdered, or beaten. It either happens or it doesn't.

The fuzzy zone is when somebody attempts to commit one of these acts - eg. attempted assault, attempted burglary, attempted murder.

But we don't seem to have attempted racism.

Moreover if we chuck words around they are subject to context and interpretion by (a) the chucker of the words (b) the recipient of the chucked words and (c) spectators of the chucking of the words.

Interestingly the TG bridge example highlights this problem rather well. Firstly there is the term used which didn't mean much to most of the audience, the context in which it was used would have been appropriate if nobody had been crossing the bridge, it was still appropriate to most of the audience prior to the publicity of the compliant, it was not appropriate to a the person or persons who eventually complained.

 

[Deleted96908]

Not a good comparison.

You generally don't get half robbed, murdered, or beaten. It either happens or it doesn't.

and that was my somewhat veiled point. You are either offended, or you are not.

 

[MD5]

Moreover if we chuck words around they are subject to context and interpretion by (a) the chucker of the words (b) the recipient of the chucked words and (c) spectators of the chucking of the words.

I know a crowd of lads that went to school together, and have remained good mates ever since. One of them is of black African origin, and they all affectionately call him "Token". Racist, or humourous?

How does every racist joke start? With a look over your shoulder.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

and that was my somewhat veiled point. You are either offended, or you are not.

I don't think it's as Marmite as that. I often hear remarks or see things that I think aren't too tasteful but hardly worth bothering complaining about. For instance I find the sight of fat people in skimpy clothing a bit offensive, but I never tell them - I just look away.

 

[Deleted96908]

I don't think it's as Marmite as that.

perhaps not, but if can you define being totally offended, then I'll concede you can be part offended.

..

 

[Dryce]

and that was my somewhat veiled point. You are either offended, or you are not.

But that - as I stated - is highly subjective and there can be multiple perspectives.

So do you respect the fact that one person takes offence and another doesn't.

What about the situation where somebody intends offence but non is taken?

Or the situation where the direct participants intend and take no offence but a third party observer does take offence?

 

[Dryce]

all affectionately call him "Token". Racist, or humourous?

Or a jibe at the PC brigade? Should they take offence?

 

[Deleted96908]

But that - as I stated - is highly subjective and there can be multiple perspectives.

So do you respect the fact that one person takes offence and another doesn't.


Or the situation where the direct participants intend and take no offence but a third party observer does take offence?

I totally agree, but having no intent, does not make it inoffensive. We've all done it, said something seemingly innocuous, only for others to clam up and plot revenge. And one person being offended whilst another isn't affected? Who knows... who can prescribe what it means or what it takes to be offended. We should just hope that those that claim to be offended are, and those that don't mention it, find the strength to say something too.

Don't you think some folks engineer their offence too? As my hugely fat buddy would say whenever anybody suggests he might need a rest (or diet), "Is that something I should be offended about...?".

edit: >>

What about the situation where somebody intends offence but non is taken?

in this case the person doing the insulting would have aggravated the offence and should expect a harsher penalty. Whether the recipient took offence is neither here nor there is it? Crimes can be tried in the absence of a complaint from the public, for the general good of society.
..

 

[stwat]

So the late great Robin Williams takes the piss out of just about every race,religion, sexual orientation and stereotype possible in this show.
[YOUTUBE]M9FMrjDasBk[/YOUTUBE]


Is it wrong?

God no it's funny. And just about every race, religion follower and sexual orientated person finds this funny. Or they did before people started to get offended by proxy people offended for each type of race, religion and sexual type of orientation.

I'm English and he takes the utter piss out of me for being a white Englishman. I find it funny, because it is funny, even if a little racist towards me. It is, well, funny. No malice intended just funny.

I just so wish the PC peeps would stop being 'offended', on behalf of People!! People who don't need to be condescend to and almost told that they should be offended at all costs. 'Oh your poor people, I feel so sorry for you'. You MUST be offended by this !!

Racial harmony means we can take the piss out of each other without the fear of of being branded a racist. Having a laugh between our many cultures. I grew up in 70's 80's multicultural schools and had many friends from all around the world. I still do have. Back then we would take the piss out of each other with banter going each way. It brought us closer together and I am still friends with many of those people to this day. All of us now hate how the PC brigade have more or less split apart and segregated these communities and religious cultures in the schools these past 20 yeas simply because of the oppressive and overbearing PC culture that has taken over.

I'l not even bother to say what we called each other as I'm sure you can all imagine. We all grew closer as friends and mercilessly took the piss out of each other. Each giving as good as we got. It brought us closer together as we all knew it was simply jovial and had no malice intended at all.

But as soon as the PC brigade took over such words and branded them racist, that is when the rot set in and started to grow.

We used to be a happily multilateral society. But then people started to get offended FOR people and the divides started.

 

[ItalianTuneUp]

+1 and well said. I grew up in similar times and went through a similar school situation.

However, I had a PC mother and so was rebuked severely when certain words were used. I'm not 100% sure whether that was a completely good or bad thing, probably a bit of both...tempering some excessiveness, but perhaps sanitising too much?

Anyway, I think the current severe PC environment is chilling, as it seems to have the effect of shutting down banter, ribbing, humour and mirth. As mentioned here earlier, due to people not being exactly sure what denotes racism, often people take the safe option and say nothing, suppressing conversation in the process.

I have many friends from all cultural backgrounds / nations, and none of them consider me racist. I'm not so sure about some of my PC-brigade acquaintances...I tend to be very careful what I say in their presence as you just know they will take you out of context or 'misunderstand' on behalf of those they think they are trying to protect / take offence on behalf of.

Finally, to be racist, it appears that the key is whether malice and hatred are the intent or not.

On the Robin Williams / humour front, let's not forget the great Richard Pryor...a brilliant comedian.

 

[ChrisA]

RIP Robin Williams x

 

[Giantvanman]

But as soon as the PC brigade took over such words and branded them racist, that is when the rot set in and started to grow.

We used to be a happily multilateral society. But then people started to get offended FOR people and the divides started.

Great post. Point well put.

I see the PC industry as people with agenda hijacking decent intent with net result of breeding resentment and division. Apparently, I am racist by default because I am white and because of my job. And because of I am male, I am sexist too.
I can't tell you how many of 'racial awareness/diversity' type courses I have had to endure. It is not fun being being classed as a racist and a sexist simply by being.
And any considered, polite, respectful, innocent, reasonable question put to these teachers/lecturers/educators, sends them into a tirade about why the mere questioning (of them) proves their default position.

Welcome to the new world order.

 

[E270 Owner]

Most racism is born out of inequality.

 

[markjay]

Most racism is born out of inequality.

How do you mean?

 

[Dryce]

Most racism is born out of inequality.

Inequality may be exacerbated by racism.

But the seeds of racism are completely independent of equality.

 

[grober]

Its funny how the standard defence of most bullying, intimidation, prejudice and racism is frequently ------I was only joking.
I don't think the "slope joke" was casual racism it was calculated racism in so far as these programmes are always scripted [ TG admitted they "considered" the term to be slang and not racist before including it in the scene] It was a bunch of clever media savvy people having a wee bit of a joke about a Vietnam war /Apocalypse Now reference. Pretty harmless in the main but certainly not mindful of the immense influence these programmes have on the attitudes of their audience. So comfortable middle aged Merc owning viewer takes another swig of Campari in his lounge and laughs at the cultural reference while a bunch of well oiled spotty oiks exit the pub where they have been watching the programme on the big screen and decide to try out this new vocabulary on the staff in the Thai Carry Out down the road. "Well if that rich **** Clarkson can say it why can't I?"

 

[ItalianTuneUp]

Welcome to the new world order.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. Isms like racism, sexism etc etc are the tools used by the elite (U.N., CFR, Club of Rome etc) to divide & rule us, by causing us to divide into pro and anti camps and thus spend all our time fighting each other, instead of watching what they are up to with their agenda.

Of course, the PC brigade will brand me a conspiracy theorist for saying that but then I don't give a flying f*ck what they think