is light hearted racism ever ok?

[Dryce]

ISo comfortable middle aged Merc owning viewer takes another swig of Campari in his lounge and laughs at the cultural reference while a bunch of well oiled spotty oiks exit the pub where they have been watching the programme on the big screen

A rather ironic example of sterotyping and terminology that is not dissimilar to racism ...

 

[markjay]

Prohibiting the use of derogatory terms will not change people's minds and will not cause them to be less racists.

But the new generation growing up will hear less and less of these terms and racist views. They may still hear them at home, but they will not hear them in the public domain, or in the workplace later in life etc.

The hope is that over time, future generations will have diminishing exposure to racist terminology and ideology, until eventually these will disappear altogether.

 

[grober]

A rather ironic example of sterotyping and terminology that is not dissimilar to racism ...

OK OK I take back the Campari bit.

 

[Dryce]

OK OK I take back the Campari bit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJ5xN7_YqGw

And the Luton Airport one will no doubt be about too.

 

[E55BOF]

There is nothing that you can say that will not offend SOMEONE. There is usually a good reason for the PC point of view on any issue at the outset, or it would not be an issue. The hard part is knowing where to draw the line, but there are ALWAYS, ALWAYS, people who will take it too far - in both directions.

Sadly, PC and common sense are usually mutually incompatible in the end. The man on the Clapham omnibus must have been spinning in his grave these past thirty years...

 

[theogeor]

Unfortunately a lot of "people" from the PC brigade are waiting/looking/trying hard to find an excuse to create noise and cause controversy and accuse someone for minor things that in the past were not even considered an issue.
And if someone accuse you of been racist then is a stigma that is difficult to remove even if you are the least racist person in the world. That is especially problematic if you are white male... My non white friends can get away with a lot more than I can...

TG

 

[ItalianTuneUp]

Unfortunately a lot of "people" from the PC brigade are waiting/looking/trying hard to find an excuse to create noise and cause controversy and accuse someone for minor things that in the past were not even considered an issue.
And if someone accuse you of been racist then is a stigma that is difficult to remove even if you are the least racist person in the world. That is especially problematic if you are white male... My non white friends can get away with a lot more than I can...

TG

I find that using logic to analyse their 'thinking' with them, often makes them squirm with discomfort when they see the unintended consequences of where it leads to.

But 1. they won't thank you for it, and 2. they won't be your friend...but does one want friends like this anyway? I find people like this hard work and so tend to avoid them and choose more easy going friends to spend time with.

 

[krisby]

Where do you stop though? Everyone, and I mean everyone just need to get a sense of humour and be able to sit back and laugh at oneself and with each other (unless the term intended as a direct hatred inducing insult).
If TG is to be stopped, then what about "Come Fly With Me?" Also a BBC programme, yet Precious Little, Omar Baba and Taaj could be interpreted as much worse attempts at racial profiling then a singular use of the word "slope" or referring to a mexican as something that 1930s disney cartoons depicted them as.
I take Coogans comments with a pinch of salt too, I seem to remember his "I'm Alan Partridge" episode with the yarpie (South African) being on the edge a little, would that not be considered hugely racist as well?
We are surrounded by it on a daily basis if you want to see it, otherwise it is just accepted as humourous, endearing, or multiculturalism merging.
In my London office I sit next to a Pakistani Muslim, an Indian Hindu, a Romanian agnostic a cockney and a Kenyan Londoner, I'm a kiwi. Some of the banter could be deemed quite offensive by any eves-droppers, but at the end of the day, they need to either mind their own damned business or get a sense of humour.
I would think though that 99% of people can identify friendly banter between chums, humorous comments made for entertainment (that don't incite hatred) and obvious chants in the street to no one in particular that do incite hatred.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

None of my friends are PC, in fact they would probably be classed as the complete opposite by the liberal bourgeois.

I think that if 'free speech' is repressed, it eventually rears it's ugly head in delightful sorts such as the EDL and Britain First.

 

[markjay]

...
In my London office I sit next to a Pakistani Muslim, an Indian Hindu, a Romanian agnostic a cockney and a Kenyan Londoner, I'm a kiwi. Some of the banter could be deemed quite offensive by any eves-droppers, but at the end of the day, they need to either mind their own damned business or get a sense of humour.....

I think the distinction here is between comments made to a small group of people that you know well, and comments made to a large audience or in public.

In the former scenario, you would know what is acceptible to your colleagues and what is not, but in the latter you would have to take a safer approach in order not to cause unnecessary offence.

 

[krisby]

I think the distinction here is between comments made to a small group of people that you know well, and comments made to a large audience or in public.

In the former scenario, you would know what is acceptible to your colleagues and what is not, but in the latter you would have to take a safer approach in order not to cause unnecessary offence.

Yes, but as I stated earlier in my post, most of us would (or should) know the difference between a comment made for entertainment purposes, whether in good taste or not, and one intended to incite hatred, Clarksons slope comment was obviously not the latter.

 

[Watchcame430]

The thing is Clarkson (in particular, the others less so) could get away with it if it was every now and again. Then I would agree is was an odd comment for entertainment purposes. The way I view it is though it is relentless in pretty much every show.
Each show has some nationality or person outside 'the norm' picked on.
Be it Chinese, 'Fat' Americans or whoever.
I didn't turn off because I was offended by the content per se just the cheap 'writing' if you like. It like fart jokes .... they cant seem to find any other way to entertain so lets take the p*ss out of a nation on todays show.
This leads to my opinion that there is some kind of ongoing undertone.
Add these two reasons to the poor car content and I am no longer watching. I am fully aware though there is a huge following from right across the country and world. It just could be so much better.
Also to mention ... its fine I am sure to have banter between friends of different cultures and backgrounds that many would consider racist but are others around you so understanding? Some people really take things to heart .... its worth remembering that.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

...
I don't think the "slope joke" was casual racism it was calculated racism in so far as these programmes are always scripted [ TG admitted they "considered" the term to be slang and not racist before including it in the scene] ... while a bunch of well oiled spotty oiks exit the pub where they have been watching the programme on the big screen and decide to try out this new vocabulary on the staff in the Thai Carry Out down the road. "Well if that rich **** Clarkson can say it why can't I?"

As I've said before, my wife falls into the "slope" category, as do the majority of our friends (Thai, Malaysian, Chinese, Japanese and Mongolian). In the last week or so I've asked most of them what their reaction would be to being called "slopes". Without exception, they all said they had no idea what it meant so they'd ignore it without a second thought. They certainly wouldn't be offended. I suspect that my limited sample size would be a reasonable reflection of all their country-folk. So why the fuss?

As well as friends and relatives of the above nationalities, we also have them from France, India, Iran, Romania, Lithuania, Germany, Italy, South Africa, Australia, Ireland and the UK. (Sometimes it can be like the league of nations at our house.) We've all been on the end of racial remarks (especially me from my Australian relos!), but none of us has taken serious offence at any time. By treating it all as banter, we can all enjoy it. When there's serious malicious intent we're able to ignore it, thereby nullifying the intended effect so the perpetrator usually gives up. We certainly don't give them the attention and satisfaction they seek by retaliating or reporting them for racism.

 

[Dryce]

I suspect that my limited sample size would be a reasonable reflection of all their country-folk.

Fits with the feed back I've had from my sample set.

Not exactly scientific.

So why the fuss?

Having seen the way the fuss developed I have formed a view:

I think there should be a code of practice whereby lawyers and their firms are not quoted by name in the press prior to a complaint or case being adjudicated.

So, for example, if somebody instructs their lawyers to sue the BBC for £1million then that somebody might be mentioned by name - but any comments, quotes, opinions, or otherwise by their lawyers will only be refered to as being from "the complainant's solicitor" or the "the firm representing the solicitor" or similar third party reference.

 

[grober]

dup

 

[grober]

As I've said before, my wife falls into the "slope" category, as do the majority of our friends (Thai, Malaysian, Chinese, Japanese and Mongolian). In the last week or so I've asked most of them what their reaction would be to being called "slopes". Without exception, they all said they had no idea what it meant so they'd ignore it without a second thought. They certainly wouldn't be offended. I suspect that my limited sample size would be a reasonable reflection of all their country-folk. So why the fuss?

As well as friends and relatives of the above nationalities, we also have them from France, India, Iran, Romania, Lithuania, Germany, Italy, South Africa, Australia, Ireland and the UK. (Sometimes it can be like the league of nations at our house.) We've all been on the end of racial remarks (especially me from my Australian relos!), but none of us has taken serious offence at any time. By treating it all as banter, we can all enjoy it. When there's serious malicious intent we're able to ignore it, thereby nullifying the intended effect so the perpetrator usually gives up. We certainly don't give them the attention and satisfaction they seek by retaliating or reporting them for racism.

Much as I'd like to share your social circle's rose tinted picture of the world, past and current events round the world would tend to indicate otherwise. Gaza, Ukraine, Nigeria, Tibet, Rwanda, Serbia,Bosnia, South Africa, Albania, Romania, North and South Korea, East Timor, Ugandan Asians, Cyprus, Australian aboriginals, Shri Lanka, racial segregation in the United States, Yazidis in Iraq. How did these divisions occur - somebody just didn't pull a switch overnight- complex religio- socio-economic issues involved of course but a common factor is always a long standing and vociferous campaign to dehumanise " the other people" so its OK to "stick it to em cos they deserve it" Racism is one handy tool of choice and must constantly be guarded against in a civilised society. If some kid in the street calls someone a "slope" its trivial, perhaps at most slightly unpleasant, for that person , but when a television presenter calls someone a slope in front of an audience of millions I suggest it takes on a greater significance. It was frankly disingenuous of the TG production team to think otherwise.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

Much as I'd like to share your social circle's rose tinted picture of the world, past and current events round the world would tend to indicate otherwise. Gaza, Ukraine, Nigeria, Tibet, Rwanda, Serbia,Bosnia, South Africa, Albania, Romania, North and South Korea, East Timor, Ugandan Asians, Cyprus, Australian aboriginals, Shri Lanka, racial segregation in the United States, Yazidis in Iraq. How did these divisions occur - somebody just didn't pull a switch overnight- complex religio- socio-economic issues involved of course but a common factor is always a long standing and vociferous campaign to dehumanise " the other people" so its OK to "stick it to em cos they deserve it" Racism is one handy tool of choice and must constantly be guarded against in a civilised society. If some kid in the street calls someone a "slope" its trivial, perhaps at most slightly unpleasant, for that person , but when a television presenter calls someone a slope in front of an audience of millions I suggest it takes on a greater significance. It was frankly disingenuous of the TG production team to think otherwise.

You forgot to mention Central African Republic where Christians and Moslems are slaughtering each other every day purely on the grounds of religion. I'm fairly certain that, and all your examples, didn't start with one calling the other a name that may have caused offence. There are extremes of everything and IMO you have jumped from one to the other. It's making killer mountains out of the light-hearted rhetoric of molehills that could possibly be the catalyst.

 

[markjay]

It is always helpful to look at individual cases to see the bigger picture. Google "Rami Ayad" to see what religious intolerance looks like.

When it comes to eliminating racism and prejudice, and promoting freedom of worship, we in the West (and a few other places) have gone a very long way.

The rest of the world are lagging behind, to varying degrees, but they will get there. It will just take a few more generations.

 

[E270 Owner]

Where do you stop though? Everyone, and I mean everyone just need to get a sense of humour and be able to sit back and laugh at oneself and with each other (unless the term intended as a direct hatred inducing insult).
If TG is to be stopped, then what about "Come Fly With Me?" Also a BBC programme, yet Precious Little, Omar Baba and Taaj could be interpreted as much worse attempts at racial profiling then a singular use of the word "slope" or referring to a mexican as something that 1930s disney cartoons depicted them as.
I take Coogans comments with a pinch of salt too, I seem to remember his "I'm Alan Partridge" episode with the yarpie (South African) being on the edge a little, would that not be considered hugely racist as well?
We are surrounded by it on a daily basis if you want to see it, otherwise it is just accepted as humourous, endearing, or multiculturalism merging.
In my London office I sit next to a Pakistani Muslim, an Indian Hindu, a Romanian agnostic a cockney and a Kenyan Londoner, I'm a kiwi. Some of the banter could be deemed quite offensive by any eves-droppers, but at the end of the day, they need to either mind their own damned business or get a sense of humour.
I would think though that 99% of people can identify friendly banter between chums, humorous comments made for entertainment (that don't incite hatred) and obvious chants in the street to no one in particular that do incite hatred.

I think the distinction here is between comments made to a small group of people that you know well, and comments made to a large audience or in public.

In the former scenario, you would know what is acceptible to your colleagues and what is not, but in the latter you would have to take a safer approach in order not to cause unnecessary offence.

Yes, but as I stated earlier in my post, most of us would (or should) know the difference between a comment made for entertainment purposes, whether in good taste or not, and one intended to incite hatred, Clarksons slope comment was obviously not the latter.

This the reason why it should be put in the public arena so everyone can see its "normal" to interact without upsetting anyone, it seems those who get upset are from the "getting upset brigade" and should leave well anone those that see it for what it is, racist humor, we all do it sometimes without even realizing it, just let everyone get on with it.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

This the reason why it should be put in the public arena so everyone can see its "normal" to interact without upsetting anyone, it seems those who get upset are from the "getting upset brigade" and should leave well anone those that see it for what it is, racist humor, we all do it sometimes without even realizing it, just let everyone get on with it.

I totally agree. It's interesting how a few people have voiced their concerns here over the subtle slope comment whilst blatant 'racism' like Russ Abbot's Jimmy McJimmy characterisation of a Scot was just laughed at and enjoyed for what it was - humour. Of course not everyone thought it was funny, but I don't recall any complaints or calls for him to be sent to the bloody tower!