is light hearted racism ever ok?

[camerafodder]

There is a fair chance of this sort of thing being over-thought:

Gardeners' Question Time accused of being a vehicle to project 'racist' leanings : Pro Landscaper

 

[markjay]

Quite frankly I think it's about having respect... What one person accepts and laughs at might be something that another takes offence to or doesn't want to hear.

I have a vast range of friends from different backgrounds & cultures; Turkish, Lithuanian, American, Irish etc... My best friend is Libyan & we have laughed at her Arabic stereotype much like she has poked fun at my British traits too. Does that it make it racist to each other? Yes quite possibly to others listening in that's why she and I have respect for others at all time.

You have two ears and one mouth for a reason... Use them in that order

While I agree, it is also worth pointing out that in a one-to-one relationship you can easily assess what you can say and to whom.. because you would know what might cause offense and what would be seen as humour.

When broadcasting however, we clearly do not know every member of the audience in person, and greater care should be taken not to cause offense, and more so when the contents can cause offence to many.

 

[Meldrew2]

Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys is the correct name I believe

That is the name used by JC on TG. Surprisingly onions are not mentioned on the same occasion, which is a shame. I like cheese and onion crisps…

 

[blondee]

While I agree, it is also worth pointing out that in a one-to-one relationship you can easily assess what you can say and to whom.. because you would know what might cause offense and what would be seen as humour. When broadcasting however, we clearly do not know every member of the audience in person, and greater care should be taken not to cause offense, and more so when the contents can cause offence to many.

This is exactly what I mean... Two ears, one mouth. If you have nothing of respect to say... Keep it shut.

 

[Abb]

Nothing like the word 'racist' to get a good debate going! Personally I don't think there is a place this day and age for racism on any level. We live in multi cultural societies, with a diverse range of people with different beliefs or view points that require mutual respect and tolerance. It is when the tolerance is unforgiving and peoples reluctance to adapt and respect others views, can become a breeding ground for racism.
I strongly believe the key to achieving this is education, having said that I genuinely don't believe you will eradicate it completely. For their own reasons, people will always be racist towards others and that is their prerogative, not saying its right but that's my opinion.
My reasons for saying its all about education, is some people genuinely don't think what they are saying is racist or would be construed as racist. Take the person on the street who refers to the local Chinese takeaway in a different manner, or to the local shop owned by a Pakistani family gets referred to as something else, oppose to just 'the shop', is this person inherently racist or do they know no better, and that's what its always been referred to as. I use this as a casing point, as I have come across this numerous times within my work place, never been offended, but asked what they would call the shop if it was owned by a Caucasian family, to which I am normally met my the look of confusion followed by the light bulb moment, as in fair point didn't think of it like that.
People sometimes forget it exists on both sides,to put us in our correct 'pigeon holes', my wife is British, White, COE (non practising/believing), and I am British, Asian (Pakistani parents), Muslim (non practising/believing) and we have endured our fair share from all sides.
I fear for our daughters sake, who is mixed race....yes NOT dual heritage as the PC brigade have told me, she is mixed race! Is that a racist comment??

 

[Deleted member 65149]

"Slope" refers to the mongoloid eye features of Asian people- this not something they can change even if they wished to.

The term mongoloid is now considered derogatory by most anthropologists due to its association with disputed typological models of racial classification. In other words it's considered as being racist. In slang usage the term came to be used as an insult because of its early misrepresentation for those with Down syndrome. (Typified by its over use in abbreviated form by that talentless idiot Gervais). However, my wife is Mongolian and she doesn't take particular offence at the use of the word. She's proud to be a Mongolian, just as the French and most other nationalities are proud of their heritage and generally don't take offence at being singled out with terms like 'Frog'. And she doesn't have sloping eyes either, so that theory is dispelled!

 

[ChrisA]

That is the name used by JC on TG. Surprisingly onions are not mentioned on the same occasion, which is a shame. I like cheese and onion crisps…

Only the best will do

 

[markjay]

We don't actually have a clear-cut definition of what is racist and what is not.

Some things are blatantly racist, but others are either borderline or dependent on the circumstances.

 

[poormansporsche]

Funny old world we live in, just this morning i was called a "nigga hater" by 2 kids smoking joints outside my shop when i told them to F.O.

 

[ChrisA]

So is calling a Scottish person a "Jock" as bad as calling someone from the Middle East a "Hadji" ?

Us calling those from the South "Soft Suvvern Shandy Drinkers" as they call us in Gods County "Northern Monkeys" ?

Calling a German "Jew Hater" as they call us "Island Monkeys" ?

Hillbilly, Honkey, Yid, Taffy, Paddy, Flip-flop...... all common nicknames which seem to be acceptable in every day life but is this because they sound a little tame?

Nigg*r, P*ki, Gook, N*zi, Rag Head.......these are also used but much more severe and in fact if overheard saying could land you in front of the Beak

I couldn't give a rats ar$e who calls me what name in a conversation be it humour or serious but if said to a stranger or from a stranger.......different story

So.....all my Flip-flop, Taffy, Paddy, Soft Suvvern shandy drinkers and Jock mates.....see you at the bar on Friday night in Brum!

 

[Deleted member 65149]

We've talked about at what point does something become classified as racism, with differing opinions of course. Generally it's thought to be when the use of a term becomes offensive during social perceptions of biological differences between peoples. But offensive to whom? Is it that we mostly perceive it to be offensive to some others, so we take exception on their behalf? Are we being unnecessarily over-sensitive, and in so doing negatively highlighting those biological differences instead of embracing them?

If we called for an end to all those TV programmes where parts have caused offence, racist or otherwise, there would be no more TV. The offence is in the eyes and ears of the viewer/listener. In my opinion it's usually acceptable when the contentious words and phrases are clearly used as part of humour with no malignant forms of discrimination and not overtly repeated.

 

[Abb]

I couldn't give a rats ar$e who calls me what name in a conversation be it humour or serious but if said to a stranger or from a stranger.......different story

You have hit the nail on the head Chris, what is deemed to be acceptable between people that know one another and what is said from/to random strangers is the difference between night & day.

As we have met and I get your jist, you can call me what you want!

(Gutted I cant make it with the rest of you guys this weekend, will just be getting back late that day! )

 

[Deker]

The problem is that the PC brigade have been jumping up waving their arms for so long no one really know where the line is, you can be called a racist for being descriptive ie using the colour of a persons skin or to point someone out (I've been referred to as a Gweilo while on holiday and have took no offence at all - in the context it was a pretty accurate description).

There are obvious crude racial slurs which there's no place for but for some words it really depends on the context in which they are being used before classing them as racist.

 

[poormansporsche]

It does make me wonder sometimes though how some people can actually function in the 21st century. A few years back I was universally slated on this forum for something I said (that a person deserved what they got when they were verbally abused) but i couldnt really defend myself due to pretty specific person that was mentioned. But anyway now 3 years later I will say. The person mentioned (a neighbour of mine) said to me "I didnt think the road could get any worse after you moved in (I drive a van !) but I was wrong" (whilst pointing to the Asian family that had moved in next door to me !)
I was so shocked I just couldnt think of a curt reply so i just shook my head and said c...

 

[ChrisA]

I was so shocked I just couldnt think of a curt reply so i just shook my head and said coffee?

Fixed that for you

 

[blondee]

It does make me wonder sometimes though how some people can actually function in the 21st century. A few years back I was universally slated on this forum for something I said (that a person deserved what they got when they were verbally abused) but i couldnt really defend myself due to pretty specific person that was mentioned. But anyway now 3 years later I will say. The person mentioned (a neighbour of mine) said to me "I didnt think the road could get any worse after you moved in (I drive a van !) but I was wrong" (whilst pointing to the Asian family that had moved in next door to me !) I was so shocked I just couldnt think of a curt reply so i just shook my head and said c...

Ignorant, uneducated and uncultured comes to mind.

 

[poormansporsche]

fortunately they have moved away now, but its a shame in some ways as i now have to pick up my dog poop

 

[grober]

The term mongoloid is now considered derogatory by most anthropologists due to its association with disputed typological models of racial classification. In other words it's considered as being racist. In slang usage the term came to be used as an insult because of its early misrepresentation for those with Down syndrome. (Typified by its over use in abbreviated form by that talentless idiot Gervais). However, my wife is Mongolian and she doesn't take particular offence at the use of the word. She's proud to be a Mongolian, just as the French and most other nationalities are proud of their heritage and generally don't take offence at being singled out with terms like 'Frog'. And she doesn't have sloping eyes either, so that theory is dispelled!

Agreed--- m*ng, mongoloid, slope, slanty eyed all derogatory terms used to characterise/denigrate individuals by their racial characteristics real or imagined.

 

[219]

Me, I think it's never ok, will the beeb agree?

"The BBC’s TV chief has ordered a sweeping internal investigation into Top Gear amid concerns about racism and offensive gaffes on the show.

The review of the show’s culture and practices, ordered by BBC director of television Danny Cohen, follows controversial presenter Jeremy Clarkson being given a final warning over his behaviour on the BBC2 programme.

It is understood that workers on the show were asked if they thought the programme was racist. The investigation also explored whether a culture existed where people were afraid to speak out when they found things offensive."

BBC investigates Top Gear after Jeremy Clarkson gaffes | Media | The Guardian

I don't think it can ever be right - other than ( perhaps ) two friends of different ethnicity who can , behind closed doors , rib each other in private , knowing that it is all in good humour .

In Clarkson's case , I think his ill considered remarks fall into the same category as some of HRH Prince Philip's famous gaffes : the famous 'slitty eyes' remark , 'That looks like it was put in by an Indian' , and one I heard first hand when I attended a conference in Glasgow re housing for the underprivileged 'I don't know why I've been asked to open this conference , after all , I live in a palace' , which caused a hush to fall across the room .

Sadly , both these individuals have earned themselves something of a reputation as buffoons - the Duke , thankfully , seems in recent years to have tempered his knack of saying the wrong things ; while I find it at times hard to believe that Clarkson is really as stupid as he sometimes acts in front of the cameras , and I think that the remarks and stunts are designed to generate publicity .

 

[219]

So is calling a Scottish person a "Jock" as bad as calling someone from the Middle East a "Hadji" ?

Us calling those from the South "Soft Suvvern Shandy Drinkers" as they call us in Gods County "Northern Monkeys" ?

Calling a German "Jew Hater" as they call us "Island Monkeys" ?

Hillbilly, Honkey, Yid, Taffy, Paddy, Flip-flop...... all common nicknames which seem to be acceptable in every day life but is this because they sound a little tame?

Nigg*r, P*ki, Gook, N*zi, Rag Head.......these are also used but much more severe and in fact if overheard saying could land you in front of the Beak

I couldn't give a rats ar$e who calls me what name in a conversation be it humour or serious but if said to a stranger or from a stranger.......different story

So.....all my Flip-flop, Taffy, Paddy, Soft Suvvern shandy drinkers and Jock mates.....see you at the bar on Friday night in Brum!

Having worked on building sites at various points in my life , I have no problem at all being called 'Jock' etc .

Similarly , we have a substantial number of different ethnic communities living amongst us . Back in the days when I used to video record weddings , I had a call from an Asian family who lived nearby : when I went to see them , the first question I was asked was " Derek , have you ever filmed a P*ki wedding before ? " That certainly broke the ice and I soon discovered that within their community they often use the P word to refer to each other . Similarly , I have heard Chinese people interacting with others and using Ch*nky to refer to each other .

While I would never use any of these words in front of people these ethnicities I don't know , for fear of causing offence , I do feel that sometimes certain words are only offensive if used in a manner that is meant to be offensive , and that at other times they can be used jocularly or matter-of-factly .