Juddering E-320CDI

[Nm488]

I have a problem of the car juddering for a few moments at certain speeds. It always does it as you accelerate through 40mph and sometimes (but much less often) at other speeds, for example about 20mph and occasionally at 70mph. I feel it is getting worse. The juddering is felt through the steering wheel, and is feels like driving over a poor concrete road surface. When it first started I did put it down to the road surface.

The garage at first couldn't reproduce the judder - not clear why not because it is *always* there at 40mph and when they finally did, suggested changing the great gearbox mountings. This might have improved the problem slightly for a couple of weeks, but not sure about that.

This is an E-320CDI, with airmatic suspension, and properly serviced and 100,000 miles. It makes no difference if the drive is in W or S, although the point where it judders may change slightly.

The dealer doesn't see to know what to do.

Wasn't sure if I should post here or in suspension, so apologies if I am in the wrong place.

Can anyone give any help or guidance please?

Thanks

 

[jaymanek]

You don't say which year. Sounds like Valeo glycol torque converter judder.

 

[merc85]

You don't say which year. Sounds like Valeo glycol torque converter judder.

was thinking the same,

 

[Nm488]

Thanks very much for the responses.

Car is from 2003. I have just looked up the problem you describe. It sounds scary... And almost certainly not worth fixing because I can't do any repairs myself.

I am also disapproved the the repair shop didn't identify this possibility :-(

 

[Nm488]

Thanks very much for the responses. Car is from 2003. I have just looked up the problem you describe. It sounds scary... And almost certainly not worth fixing because I can't do any repairs myself. I am also disapproved (should read-> disappointed) that the the repair shop didn't identify this possibility :-(

Can I keep driving the car or is it going to get worse with use? And is there any safety issue if I drive the car?

Thanks

 

[merc85]

you can get a 5sp box quality cheaply on the bay. just needs to be fitted. shame to write the car off if it is the above.

Give the box a fluid change see if it helps at all. New Rad and fluid change may cure it.

 

[merc85]

Re driving the car if it is contaminated it will only get worse the more and more the ATF gets contaminated. Its the Radiator it fractures inside and coolent gets mixed with the gearbox fluid (atf) then thats where it all starts.

You will need a new rad to stop it happening

 

[Nm488]

Thanks Merc85. It is a great car and hard to replace, but the more I read, the worse it seems! The problem seems to be that the cost of major repairs now are approaching the value if the car, but to me the car is worth more than the market value.

I will try to see if I can tell whether I have a Valeo radiator in the morning and then decide what to do.

Can I ask, will a new radiator and ATM fluid change arrest the problem? Am I then left with a judder at the present level, or does the new fluid solve the juddering problem?

 

[merc85]

Thanks Merc85. It is a great car and hard to replace, but the more I read, the worse it seems! The problem seems to be that the cost of major repairs now are approaching the value if the car, but to me the car is worth more than the market value.

I will try to see if I can tell whether I have a Valeo radiator in the morning and then decide what to do.

Can I ask, will a new radiator and ATM fluid change arrest the problem? Am I then left with a judder at the present level, or does the new fluid solve the juddering problem?

Tbh i dont know, but before chucking the towel in its got to be worth a fluid change, i know MB and some specialist can test the ATF to see if it has been contaminated with coolent.

Just because a possible repair may exceed market value of your car it doesnt mean you have to break or scrap it. If you know and love the car why not get it repaired. say its costs £2k - 3k what sort of car of the same quality and one that you know would you get for that?

You may buy a bigger headache. Hope you get it sorted and its summit simple.

 

[guydewdney]

Swapping the gearbox fluid with any ole atf fluid should show if its that. Very easy to do, very diy able for testing purposes. Pick up five litres of cheap atf and a socket set and an old big baking tray. Drain oil, and replace. Drive.

 

[Nm488]

Thanks for the help.

I was unable to tell if my radiator is the offending make. I will get the ATF fluid changed tomorrow and see if this improves things.

What I haven't understood yet, is this: if changing the fluid fixes the problem, does that mean that the gearbox is OK and won't need be replaced?

In this case, if I get the radiator changed, is the problem solved? Any further insights are appreciated.

 

[guydewdney]

I dont know if the contamination causes damage, probably does, but to what extent? Its only 5 to 7 litres of atf, and an easy job. Check the level before draining (hot gearbox, check whilst running in N with dipstick) If it fixes it then start looking at the rad.

 

[Nm488]

Thanks for all your help. Arranged for gear box fluid to be changed tomorrow, so will see what is what. Will also ask them to tell me want make of radiator I have fitted.

 

[Nm488]

Hello again. One week on and I had the tansmission fluid changed. Voila, the car now drives like new. It's a,amazing, so thanks to all on this forum.

My questions now are what to do next...

1. Can I simply change the transmission fluid every so often, namely when ever the problem starts to arise? How often might this be?

2. How can I tell if the gear box or any other parts have been damaged by the glycol leak, which I presume was present in the replaced AFT?

3. If I I get the radiator changed for a new one that doesn't have the design defect, is that all I need to do to prevent re-occurance of the problem?

4. Apart from the possibility of re-emerging juddering are there any safety issues with this problem. I assume ( hope!) not or there would have been a recall!?

5. I believe this is the responsibility of Mercedes, and that it is *not* a warranty problem but I don't plan to waste my time taking it up. I assume they will just laugh and say no. Correct? Nor do I intend to remonstrate with the service dept who failed (or chose not) to spot the problem.

Thanks as always for the informed and helpful guidance. I am a bit out of my depth on here, because I enjoy the car as an owner/driver, rather than a mechanical expert.

NM

 

[merc85]

1, Dont leave it that late it will damage the box
2, You cant really
3, Yes and another fluid and filter change
4, You could end up loosing drive
5, Mercedes will not help with regards to any waranty

 

[Nm488]

Thanks for all your help on this.

The problem of juddering slowly returns following the transmission fluid change. Even the cost of investigating this problem is prohibitive, so I have decided to replace the car.

I am very disappointed that Mercedes-Benz could make a car with such a defect and not take steps to investigate and fix it as part of the routine servicing early in its life, once the problem was known.

Perhaps this is the triumph of hope over experience but I will get the new E-Class because I have loved this car. Will keep fingers crossed.

NM

 

[merc85]

If you haven't replaced the Radiator and its coolant mix issue the problem will come back.

 

[DrNick]

Yes, you seem to have identified the problem as being the contaminated fluid by changing it for new fluid (which is becoming contaminated again).
You need to change the radiator for one that doesn't leak and change the fluid again.
Hopefully this will fix the problem unless it has already damaged the box. In any event, you need to change the radiator!

 

[rifiki]

I agree with Nm488. I think BMWs has the same problem. I had a Y plate Nissan Primera for 11 years. The auto box had a totally seperate oil cooler, cooled the gearbox and nothing else. So much for Benz and BMW engineering, bean counters?

 

[rorf]

Well of course the juddering came back if you never replaced the radiator which costs about 400 Pounds