Kettling

glojo

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Following on from a VERY heated debate regarding this issue on this forum, this morning I had the privilege of sitting through the questioning of both the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police and the Gold Commander for the G20 conference by the Parliamentary Select Committee for Home Affairs.

One topic that was raised was the term 'kettling'

I took huge amounts of criticism because I had never heard of this termology, had NO IDEA what it meant and suggested that this was a media expression.

This term was raised by the committee and the Commissioner said exactly the same thing, however

What happened at the G20 demonstrations was..


The main demonstration was well organised and well planned


BUT
There were four seperate ILLEGAL demonstrations that were organised by anarchist groups and these demonstrations were designed to....

'Stop London!'

This was the term used by these groups and not the terms created by the police.

Because these four groups were organising this type of demonstration they refused to co-operate with the police, they refused to discuss where they were going to march and they refused to give ANY information. There sole intention was to cause disruption and mayhem.

Because of the lack of information the police then decided to contain these four different groups and try to herd them in directions away from high risk, or vulnerable areas.

It was a ploy by these four groups to manipulate police officers into reacting in an aggressive manner, to create disruption, to go into areas where they could cause the maximum disruption and then take pictures of any acts which they could then interpret as being aggressive. These pictures would be used for maximum effect and maximum exposure.. these four demonstrations had NOTHING to do with the G20 meetings.

unfortunately for Mr Tomlinson he stumbled into the area where the police were involved in containing one such group. there was no'kettling' and groups were being moved away from so called high risk locations, I believe in that very specific case it was the Bank of England.



Police Epalettes
The IPCC has requested from FIVE main television station ANY FOOTAGE they have of ANY OFFICER NOT wearing epaulettes and so far there is not one single piece of footage... Not one single picture has been produced that shows an officer not wearing epaulettes. The Commissioner condemned any officer that deliberately attempted to conceal their identity and is helping the IPCC with investigating all allegations. The IPCC has access to ALL police information regarding the G20, including CCTV, video, and radio logs

This cross examination of these very two high ranking officers was a real eye opener and they were grilled in what appeared quite an aggressive manner but the truth bore no similarity to the mass media frenzy.

The first statement by the police regarding the death of Mr Tomlinson was highlighted and a very senior labour MP tried to suggest there was a police cover up. Unfortunately for this person, the officer that released the press statement... was the Gold Commander who was giving evidence.

This officer stated that inside the operations room the first they new about this incident was when they saw real time footage from a police helicopter. They saw Mr Tomlinson laying on the ground and being treated by a police medical team. Within minutes it was apparent that this person had died and immediately the area was ordered to be cordoned off and treated as a crime scene. The Gold Commander then ordered a senior detective to the scene and treat the death as suspicious. This was done instantly and when cross examined the Gold Commander stated that at the time he had no idea of how this person had been injured, it could have been natural causes, it could have been a mugging, it could have been a fight, it could have been any one of a hundred reasons and at NO TIME did this officer state that Mr Tomlinson had not been in contact with the police. It was a suspicious death and as such was treated with the importance that any murder scene required.


This labour MP then tried to say that he should not have released any statement until he was aware of ALL THE FACTS! This would have taken many, many hours and as was said by the Commissioner…… if they had kept quiet for several hours the media would have gone hysterical.

RIOT POLICE
Again as I said in that other thread.. Apart from the specialised tactical aid groups, every other officer on duty at those demonstrations were ordinary police officers that received at most… two days of training per year, and that is at most. If an officer is off sick on the training day or away on holiday, then they would not even get those two days. It would be fair to say that the great majority of these officers would never have experienced anything like the degree of hostility they had to endure during those demonstrations and no doubt a good number of these officers would have been terrified. The Commissioner conceded that a very few officers might have let themselves down but everything had to be taken in context and thoroughly examined so that lessons could be learnt.

Plain Cloths Police
A liberal MP that was present at this demonstration alleged there were no toilets laid on for the demonstrators and no fresh drinking water?? Unbelievable…



We all saw that Youtube Video clip where SEVERAL yes several demonstrators were coming out of single porta loo’s. The Gold Commander simply sated there were portable toilets. This same MP then alleged that he had evidence that there were a number of plain cloths police officers mixing with the demonstrators, inciting them to throw missiles at the police.



The officer that was in charge of this police operation informed the Chair of this committee that there were NO PLAIN CLOTHS officer on duty at the G20 demonstrations and there were no plain cloths officers deployed to mingle with these demonstrators. In his opinion it would have been too dangerous to put these officers into such a hostile environment and to suggest the police would incite illegal behaviour was repugnant.. that stopped that MP.

When grilled about the containment of these demonstrators, the police said they had two options.. Contain or dispersal. They had tried dispersal at a previous demonstration and these same groups then ran amok committing random acts of criminal damage BUT……. Every officer involved in containing these very specific groups had the discretion to let people go. At no time was it suggested that any group was herded up into tight groups and surrounded by officers that had their arms intertwined.


It was an amazing grilling and a great eye opener and I smiled when the committee stated they did not want a European style of policing

What was not asked was the health and safety responsibilities of the Commissioner in regard to the safety and welfare of his officers, that would have been an interesting debate
 

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Were any questions asked about the accusations of police agent provocateurs made by several people, including an MP?

link

dave
 

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Were any questions asked about the accusations of police agent provocateurs made by several people, including an MP?

link

dave

Read the second and third paragraphs under the section Plain Cloths Police !
 

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No, plain clothes police were present at G20. [yawn] :rolleyes:

Video: Plainclothes police with batons at G20 protests | UK news | guardian.co.uk

As for the Police Epalettes.... the internet is awash with pictures of officers not displaying their numbers including the two very high profile cases discussed in the earlier thread.

How can this officer retain any credibility when he makes false statements like this?
 

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Sorry John, but like others have said - not everything you see or hear from the mouths of senior policemen is true.

shall we start with this one?

police-number-415x370.jpg


As Sp!ke says, pics like that are all over the internet

how about kettling - of course, it was all anarchists trying to disrupt the otherwise legal protests

Five hours inside a police 'kettle' was time to reflect on our lost liberties - Times Online

or we could go for this article from the Guardian where Sir Paul Stephenson is interviewed, in particular the last two paragraphs

"The commander was also questioned about the police use of "kettling", where protesters are kept in one area for several hours at a time. He said it had been used to stop people dispersing and creating numerous "pockets of disruption" across the capital.

Stephenson said he recognised that kettling had been widely criticised and said it was "proper to ask for a review of the tactic". He also said that he would examine claims that there were undercover officers acting as agents provocateurs in the crowd, although he described the idea as extraordinary."

Met commissioner admits concerns over G20 policing | UK news | guardian.co.uk

It would seem that the commissioner is suffering from selective amnesia

because he also mentioned it here

BBC NEWS | UK | Police 'kettle' tactic feels the heat
 
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glojo

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Sorry John, but like others have said - not everything you see or hear from the mouths of senior policemen is true.

shall we start with this one?

police-number-415x370.jpg


As Sp!ke says, pics like that are all over the internet

how about kettling - of course, it was all anarchists trying to disrupt the otherwise legal protests

Five hours inside a police 'kettle' was time to reflect on our lost liberties - Times Online

or we could go for this article from the Guardian where Sir Paul Stephenson is interviewed, in particular the last two paragraphs

"The commander was also questioned about the police use of "kettling", where protesters are kept in one area for several hours at a time. He said it had been used to stop people dispersing and creating numerous "pockets of disruption" across the capital.

Stephenson said he recognised that kettling had been widely criticised and said it was "proper to ask for a review of the tactic". He also said that he would examine claims that there were undercover officers acting as agents provocateurs in the crowd, although he described the idea as extraordinary."

Met commissioner admits concerns over G20 policing | UK news | guardian.co.uk

It would seem that the commissioner is suffering from selective amnesia

because he also mentioned it here

BBC NEWS | UK | Police 'kettle' tactic feels the heat
If you look just to the left of your red circle you will see the epaulettes.


You will not see senior officials telling untruths when they appear in front of select committees.

I am not going to play silly games answering these questions.. I have simply given you an account of an excellent interrogation by very senior politicians who are not fools.
 

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You will not see senior officials telling untruths when they appear in front of select committees.

I am not going to play silly games answering these questions.. I have simply given you an account of an excellent interrogation by very senior politicians who are not fools.

you've already told us that the commissioner said he had never heard of the term 'kettling'

I posted two articles where he is quoted using that very word.

Both versions of events can't be true. So, are you suggesting that he was lying to the press when he used a term he'd never heard of a few weeks later?

Here's another 'silly game for you'

Below are three pictures of what is reported to be the same policeman, he certainly looks the same. Two were taken at the G20, one elsewhere a few days later

Would you like to play 'odd one out' ?

nonumber.jpg

number.jpg
 
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glojo

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Sorry John, but like others have said - not everything you see or hear from the mouths of senior policemen is true.
Hi Andy,
What you are displaying is obviously an officer wearing a specific jacket at one period of time during a day where this person was working probably a 16 - 20hr day. During this period they were having to wear numerous types of different jacket\clothing\overalls etc and according to the Police Commander in charge... The Metropolitan Police only have I think he said either one or two sets of epaulettes. Obviously these epaulettes cannot be worn on every item of clothing... That would be madness so they will put them where they believe they will serve the best benefit.

Both senior officers admitted it was possible for an officer to deliberately decide not to wear this item, but before they were deployed all officers in charge of small sections were tasked with checking these items were present.

They then went on to describe how the numbers might not be clearly visible but they made a point of saying that this issue was being investigated by the IPCC and so far there has not been any pictures that clearly show the non compliance and as you have kindly illustrated... That specific officer is quite clearly wearing some type of epaulette.

Telling lies before a Parliamentary Select Comittee is the quickest way of ending a career and it jsut does not happen. They did however go on to add how the numbers might be obscured and they were also considering having these numbers embroidered on more epaulettes, but so far the costing was a major issue??

You will no doubt see countless wild accusations and clever misquoting of conversations, but I watched the whole event and three quarters of the way through the interrogation the loudest complainant (an elderly labour MP) apologised to the Commander for getting things so wrong during his questioning.

It would be both silly and naive to say that lessons cannot be learnt but our lynch mob will be blind to the facts and will always scream their vitriolic hate messages, but contrary to what they are saying there were four demonstrations that were there to solely cause trouble.. They went there to cause criminal damage, they went there to obstruct the free flow of traffic and they went there to obstruct and asault the police. There literature on their web-sites has been documented and is now being used to help identify those that took part.

I am not answering any of the silly questions, my first post is a very good accurate record of the meeting.

There were no plain cloths officers at that demonstration,

but.....

Could there have been some of the anachists pretending to be police officers?? Never let a reasonable explanation interfere with our resident lynch mob and their hatred of the police..

In an extremely hostile, violent situation, do we seriously think a plain cloths police officer will say, "Look at me everyone, I am a plain cloths police officer!"

Or did they have big signs above their heads say, "Plain cloths Police"

How did this newspaper know for definite that the people they saw were the police?

I must confess I was surpriseded when this officer said there were none present, as to me it wold have been helpful to have had at least 'spotters' but when this officer sdaid quite clearly, and quite categorically, that there were none, then that is the end of the conversation, there were none... If there were ever proved to be any present then that senior officer would be sacked for telling lies to that committee, it just would not happen and he would have waffled. but we all know apart from our lynch mob will know best.

A liberal MP produced the newspaper article that made the allegations but when asked for either pictures of these alleged officers, or names... He back pedalled and started waffling about might be, could be, etc etc. still never let a good story spoil the truth
 
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glojo

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Not wanting to get into the whole debate, but I saw this link at the bottom of the link posted above:

Bishopsgate police officer refuses to give ID number
As has been said countless times.

Only constables and sergeants were identifying numbers, that inspector behaved in an admirable manner and that photogaraphers actions speak for themself, but once again...... Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.
 

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with the greates of respect John, please take off those rose couloured glasses.

What most of us are seeing in that photograph is a pice of grey cloth covering the identification on the guy's epaulettes. Not a change of clothes, not accidentally covering the numbers etc etc

I seem to remember reading a quote somewhere (shortly after the G20) from the very same commissioner that coloured epaulettes with no numbers on were used to identify rank - I've never heard of that before and I'll have a look for the quote in the morning. i'm sure it's onthe internet

Wake up and smell the coffee. whether or not you believe it. Senior policemen have been known to tell lies, chairmen of select committees tell lies, rank and file policemen (and women) tell lies - it's how (many of them) they keep their jobs.

I'm off to be now :)
 
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glojo

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Here's another 'silly game for you'

Below are three pictures of what is reported to be the same policeman, he certainly looks the same. Two were taken at the G20, one elsewhere a few days later
The grey epaulette is an indication of a specific role that a supervisor was tasked to perform. They did list the colours and their role.

That grey epaulette would I guess hide the numbers but once again you have produced pictures of an officer wearing epaulettes.

Remember we are discussing officers not wearing epaulettes

Read my first post.

I also said lessons were going to have to to learnt

Read my first post.

I also said officers only had one or two sets of numbered epaulettes

Read my first post

That grey epaulette obviously hides the officers numbers, BUT he was wearing epaulettes.


Read my first post.

It could be that our lynch mob will scream their heads off about foul, but some junior supervisory officers had to wear these coloured epaulettes, it was not there fault it covered their numbers and it was not as though there were hundreds of supervisors with these coloured epaulettes, but never let the truth spoil a good story.

I'm afraid i am off to bed now but keep this game going as it is fun seeing how we are all out to find fault.

Could we also show all the hundreds of pictures that show officers being assaulted, missiles being thrown, liquids being thrown at officers? Could we have a fair balance of debate, or would that be unfair?

This select committee were certainly not pro police, they were anti and they were asking probing questions which i enjoyed as I wanted to hear the truth but folks here are not so open minded they know there truth because they have the pictures and they have read the newspapers.

How many of you took the time to listen to, or obtain the transcript of this meeting? That is where you will hear facts and everything that is said is not just recorded it is transcribed as the speaker gives their evidence and everything that is said is documented and subsequently dissected. It might at times be boring but at least it is fact.

Good noight all and keep up the questions
 
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glojo

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For those that think these Select Committee are there as a bunch of nodding poodles a couple of years ago I watched the Foreign Affairs Select Committee interview Dr David kelly regarding the so called weapons of mass destruction... They tore that gentile man to shreds and sadly the humiliation was too much for that very nice man.

I watched the Agricultural Committee lay into a farming Minister... they made the man look a complete baffoon and within days the MP resigned.

I watched the Defence Committee interview the Air Marshall (is that the right rank) and humiliate him into confessing that the Nimrod was not fit for task.

The MP's on select committee's are the creme of the MP's and these committees are where governments and industry are held accountable. I have seen editors of our National Newspapers given a stern dressing down and put in their place. The chair of the Transport Select Committee was a classic example of what makes our system work. Gwyneth Dunwoody MP. She humiliated Tony Blair and treated him like a naughty school boy and she was a Labour MP. The Labour Party even tried to get her removed

I have had this long ramble because

a) I cannot sleep :)
b) Folks think I am gullible and think these committees are being fooled by the police.

These committees are made up of experts, some of whom are ex barristers, they take no prisoners and there is no right to silence, or avoiding answering any questions. they will insist on getting an answer and if anyone tries the old 'confidentiality' gag, then the chair will insist on a written answer. You just do not lie to these people.

Folks are throwing up quotes from newspapers and they are taking them at face value. I have NO DOUBT the Commissioner has used the term kettling in respondse to questions, no doubt at all. I have used it... but I did not have a clue what it meant and everyone here has there own interpretation. The Commisioner and the Commander in charge of public order training stated this was termology they had never heard of until recently... It is NOT a term that has EVER been used by the police and it is a term made up by the media. You can show as many quotes as you want but the correct termology is..

'Containment'

You all take quotes as being factual

So to keep Andy happy, here is an exact quote from him,
Andy_K said:
everything you see or hear from the mouths of senior policemen is true.

I totally accept we all tell whoopsies but I do NOT accept that telling lies to a Parliamentary Select Committee is either common practice, or acceptable. It is however an easy way of getting sacked.

Watching Tony Blair being interviewed was the nearest I saw to untruths being told and at times their was no quartere given by Blair or his interviewers :)

The cloth epaulette saga ... That Commander stated there were at least three different colours.. White, grey and blue but there were only a very few select officers that were oblkiged to wear these epaulettes and as can be seen by Andy's example, the officers were easily identifiable and they stood out like a sore thumb just because they had an odd colour on their collar.

I would be amazed though to see these colourd epaulettesever again without having numbers fitted.

I am NOT defending the Police, I am trying to present rteasoned points that the media has ignored and still perhaps ignores.

How many of us knew that there were four large demonstrations that were present during the G20 demonstration and these demonstrations were solely present to create trouble and disruption? Why aren't the media condemning this?

Why aren't our resident arm chair critics condemning thisn type of anarchy?

What can we do to stop these so called demonstrators? These people are not interested in debate, or even peaceful demonstration. these people thrive on causing trouble and disruption.

We get the society we deserve and we will get the police service we deserve.

I am no fan of the Metropolitan Police, but unless we can come up with a sensible alternative then we are where we are.

It was interesting to note how the MP's empahasised they did not want to have a European style policing of demonstrations :)
 

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The MP's on select committee's are the creme of the MP's and these committees are where governments and industry are held accountable.


Hmmmmm,

Q, who's the chair of the Home Affairs Select committee?

a, Keith Vaz - type that into Google with words like expenses, court letter, corruption etc

Q, who's the chair of the Innovation, Universities, Science and Skills Committee?

a, Phil Willis - the MP who used his expenses to pay for a flat his daughter lived in

How about Malcolm Bruce chairman of the International development select Committee.

There are loads more, why not have a look for yourself?

UK Parliament - Select Committee Membership

If these are the 'creme' of the MPs then I think it's time we all started getting very worried indeed :)

John, you still haven't offered any sensible explanation for Sir Paul Stephenson's memory loss about 'kettling'

On different occassions he offers different versions of the story, in the one you reported he denied knowing anything about something he'd discussed in interviews on TV and in the press.

Not all of those versions of events can be true

Now if he's not lying or altering the truth then you must have misrepresented what he said in your initial post in this thread which I am sure you didn't

Presumably, the transcript of the meeting should be available on line?
 
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glojo

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I hate Vaz with a vengeance but have you heard the term poacher turned gamekeeper.

kettling is not a recognized wording that has ever been used in police training... We can talk about it as much as we want but it is a word introduced by the media... It is pointless discussing it.

I have no doubt that the Commissioner might have used the term when it was no doubt discussed or put to him.. it would be polite to just let the term go over his head..

When faced with an investigation then anyone must be perfectly clear regarding termology and to use a word that has only just been introduced by the media would be both foolhardy and reckless.

I can say how everyone lies when tghey go before these enquiries... it is dead easy to say that but that would be me being prejudiced. these committees are where reform will take place, where decisions and recommendations will be made. They are certainly NOT there to ensure there is a cover up.

I would suggest that Vaz is a Labour MP through and through and labour are not happy about the Mayor of London removing the old Police Commissioner and what betterway to have pay back.. These MP's were mostly out for blood, there was just one MP that was clearly pro Police so please do not criticise unless you listened to the complete interogation because thatis what it was.

I am however laughing at the media quotes where they say teh Police Commander was not happy with those ooficer that only received two days training. He did say that they only had two days training but he also commended the conduct and high degree of self control :)

I enjoy listening to these select committees because that is where you find out what is really taking place with the field of expertise of that commiittee.

If ever you get the chance I would thoroughly recommend you take the time and listen to a complete sitting. Thney are excellent

I referred earlier to a farming minister having to resign after appearing before one of these commiittees.. One of the points the committee highlighted was that a farmer in the North-West of England was receiving thousands of pounds for 'laying over' his fields. now forgive my termology and this practice might have stopped, but the committee investigating these payments found out that the ministry had been paying out vast sums for fields in the middle of the Irish Channel!!!!! Believe me the Minister had desperately tried to avoid answering the question regarding these issues but the committee were relentless and they were highlighting numerous bad practices.. that is no doubt their role and they were gunning for the Mets so if either officer lied, then their heads will very quickly be looking out across the Thames...

we can all knit pick my points but that meeting was extremely educational and gave a much more balanced picture. It is funny how those that never watched, or listened to the full meeting can disbelieve it and instead believe tghe Daily Sport. I guess that speaks volumes and what else can I say?

Oh and it was only this year that I found out that 'be-spoke' is a silly way of saying made-to-measure.

Containment is the correct termology and containment is the word that should be used :)
 

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Unfortunately, the police are regularly incompetent & routinely lie, even under oath. Why you think being in front of a Select Committee would scare them any straighter than being in Court & committing perjury escapes me.

They lied about Menezes & they lied about Ian Tomlinson. British justice is littered with case after case of people wrongly convicted or fitted up for offences they did not commit & which the police knew they didn't commit.

On the whole I'd say they do vastly more good than harm, but they are not infallible, not all honest & not all worthy of wearing the uniform.

Keith Vaz is an oleaginous, unctious **** who richly deserves to be booted out come the next cull rout election.

All IMHO. DYOR.
 

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oleaginous - what a cracking word :)

Will add to my vocabulary as I deal with many who fit this description.
 
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glojo

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Unfortunately, the police are regularly incompetent & routinely lie, even under oath. Why you think being in front of a Select Committee would scare them any straighter than being in Court & committing perjury escapes me.

They lied about Menezes & they lied about Ian Tomlinson. British justice is littered with case after case of people wrongly convicted or fitted up for offences they did not commit & which the police knew they didn't commit.

On the whole I'd say they do vastly more good than harm, but they are not infallible, not all honest & not all worthy of wearing the uniform.

Keith Vaz is an oleaginous, unctious **** who richly deserves to be booted out come the next cull rout election.

All IMHO. DYOR.
Hi Neil
I am not saying they will not lie but i am saying that if they do then they will get caught out. Every single word they mutter in front of the Select Committee is recorded. Every single word will be examined in minute detail and if any information they gave proofs to be incorrect they will probaqbly loose their job.

Will you please show me where the deliberate lies were told regarding the OFFICIAL FIRST POLICE PRESS RELEASE?

it is so easy to make these allegations and now we would like to see the DELIBERATE lies you are alleging.

I cannot stand Mr Vaz and objest to his being an MP
 

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The Police are damned if they do & damned if they don't.

Cloth epaulettes would have had the identifying shoulder numbers like Police Sergeant 42 from A.B. (Belgravia Police Station) embroidered on. Often bought by individual officers, the metal ones the the Sergeant is displaying have sharpish edges & sharp pins that can easily become detached in such situations. Woven or embroidered numbers are not seen from edge on as in the two photographs of Sergeant 42 AB

Officers can buy in these epaulettes from suppliers like :
CopShopUK Ltd

CopShopUK Ltd Epaulettes

Note: We are unable to accept any of the following items for return unless they are faulty, whereupon we will send a replacement:
Personalised items, including FPN Holders, embroidered epaulettes or clothing
Books and DVD's (except under exceptional circumstances)
Earpieces/undergarments/socks (for hygiene reasons)

The trouble is no one, in any society, has come up with an effective way of policing freedom.

A concept that people sometimes fail to comprehend, that "freedom" does need to be policed.

Sadly we all suffer from human frailties, including the police...one day talking in class to group of Primary School Children about "stranger danger" taking a dead baby from the arms of it's distraught mother, looking after the proverbial old lady after she has been mugged, fallen & broken her hip.

Then to go police a "demonstration" 8 hours later with people screaming at you for being a fascist pig or tools of the government, gobbing in your face, throwing ball bearings at you & rolling them under the feat of the horses. Lovely...refreshment break of a sandwich or two then back into the fray eh?

What..no CS Gas used, No water Cannon on the Streets of the Capital, No Rubber Bullets?

If you want that then go across the Channel where all the Police are armed with real guns all of the time.

The day after the Demo ? Back to "normal policing" carry on with the frustration of trying to explain away the Legal system of this country...why people don't get jail time for crime after crime...out on Bail for Murder or as today's news has it

BBC NEWS | England | South Yorkshire | Rapist father gets jail term cut

or this BBC NEWS | England | Wiltshire | Men guilty of torture raid murder

or BBC NEWS | Northern Ireland | River body is missing 15-year-old

The list is endless. I was present in Southall many many years ago when Blair Peach (remember him ?) was sadly killed. I was present in Brixton when the riots were going strong I was present in Lewisham where the National Front marched (we were policing a Millwall match & had to rush from the match to help out in Lewisham, to protect the
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National Front!. I have also helped to Police a march protesting about the Police, that was fun...even in the bad old days (?) policing a march of Wives of Police Officers protesting about the Police rates of pay.

Nothing is ever perfect in an imperfect world. Although I am now long retired I would rather the Police we have than the Continental model or to have the Armed Forces Police the streets as "aid to Civil Power".

The old Ballad of Tommy Atkins has often applied to our Soldiery it has always applied to the Old Bill.

So what is the answer ?

The Office of Constable bestows upon an ordinary citizen an extraordinary range of powers. The impartial execution of these powers, free from political interference, is the cornerstone of the criminal justice system
and the non-negotiable key to maintaining any civilised democracy.We change this at our peril.

Remember too that Police officers cannot legally be instructed to arrest a person. It is a decision they must take for themselves, using their experience, knowledge and discretion to take the most appropriate course of action to fulfil their function as officers of the Crown.

This will explain it more, from the humble P.C.'s view point:
http://www.polfed.org/OC_Final.pdf

Do read Kipling & see if you can apply it to Police
Kipling's Tommy Atkins

This photo was partially to blame in deciding on the Police as a Career. It was "splashed" over the front pages of many newspapers all those years ago & I watched the disaster unfold on a small black & white television at the time
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On Friday 21 October 1966, a coal tip collapsed sending thousands of tons of mud and colliery waste down Merthyr Mountain near Aberfan in South Wales, destroying a school and about 20 houses and killing 144 people. Susan Robertson, 8, was pulled alive from the rubble.
 
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glojo

glojo

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The Police are damned if they do & damned if they don't.
Listening to the committee meeting there were some really excellent and valid points that were made regarding the demonstration regarding numerous aspects and I do not usually have much time for senior officers that chase promotion as opposed to being a good street copper, but the two very senior officers really impressed me with their openess, their frankness and their honesty.

No one is perfect, mistakes will be made, tempers will sadly be lost and rotten apples will always rear their ugly head but I think London owes a huge debt of gratitude to those that controlled those four potentially very violent demonstration. You could read between the lines what was probably happening and of course what the outcome will be. The Commissioner was clearly concerned about the behaviour of a very tiny minority of officers.
 

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