glojo
Hardcore MB Enthusiast
Following on from a VERY heated debate regarding this issue on this forum, this morning I had the privilege of sitting through the questioning of both the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police and the Gold Commander for the G20 conference by the Parliamentary Select Committee for Home Affairs.
One topic that was raised was the term 'kettling'
I took huge amounts of criticism because I had never heard of this termology, had NO IDEA what it meant and suggested that this was a media expression.
This term was raised by the committee and the Commissioner said exactly the same thing, however
What happened at the G20 demonstrations was..
The main demonstration was well organised and well planned
BUT
There were four seperate ILLEGAL demonstrations that were organised by anarchist groups and these demonstrations were designed to....
'Stop London!'
This was the term used by these groups and not the terms created by the police.
Because these four groups were organising this type of demonstration they refused to co-operate with the police, they refused to discuss where they were going to march and they refused to give ANY information. There sole intention was to cause disruption and mayhem.
Because of the lack of information the police then decided to contain these four different groups and try to herd them in directions away from high risk, or vulnerable areas.
It was a ploy by these four groups to manipulate police officers into reacting in an aggressive manner, to create disruption, to go into areas where they could cause the maximum disruption and then take pictures of any acts which they could then interpret as being aggressive. These pictures would be used for maximum effect and maximum exposure.. these four demonstrations had NOTHING to do with the G20 meetings.
unfortunately for Mr Tomlinson he stumbled into the area where the police were involved in containing one such group. there was no'kettling' and groups were being moved away from so called high risk locations, I believe in that very specific case it was the Bank of England.
Police Epalettes
The IPCC has requested from FIVE main television station ANY FOOTAGE they have of ANY OFFICER NOT wearing epaulettes and so far there is not one single piece of footage... Not one single picture has been produced that shows an officer not wearing epaulettes. The Commissioner condemned any officer that deliberately attempted to conceal their identity and is helping the IPCC with investigating all allegations. The IPCC has access to ALL police information regarding the G20, including CCTV, video, and radio logs
This cross examination of these very two high ranking officers was a real eye opener and they were grilled in what appeared quite an aggressive manner but the truth bore no similarity to the mass media frenzy.
The first statement by the police regarding the death of Mr Tomlinson was highlighted and a very senior labour MP tried to suggest there was a police cover up. Unfortunately for this person, the officer that released the press statement... was the Gold Commander who was giving evidence.
This officer stated that inside the operations room the first they new about this incident was when they saw real time footage from a police helicopter. They saw Mr Tomlinson laying on the ground and being treated by a police medical team. Within minutes it was apparent that this person had died and immediately the area was ordered to be cordoned off and treated as a crime scene. The Gold Commander then ordered a senior detective to the scene and treat the death as suspicious. This was done instantly and when cross examined the Gold Commander stated that at the time he had no idea of how this person had been injured, it could have been natural causes, it could have been a mugging, it could have been a fight, it could have been any one of a hundred reasons and at NO TIME did this officer state that Mr Tomlinson had not been in contact with the police. It was a suspicious death and as such was treated with the importance that any murder scene required.
This labour MP then tried to say that he should not have released any statement until he was aware of ALL THE FACTS! This would have taken many, many hours and as was said by the Commissioner…… if they had kept quiet for several hours the media would have gone hysterical.
RIOT POLICE
Again as I said in that other thread.. Apart from the specialised tactical aid groups, every other officer on duty at those demonstrations were ordinary police officers that received at most… two days of training per year, and that is at most. If an officer is off sick on the training day or away on holiday, then they would not even get those two days. It would be fair to say that the great majority of these officers would never have experienced anything like the degree of hostility they had to endure during those demonstrations and no doubt a good number of these officers would have been terrified. The Commissioner conceded that a very few officers might have let themselves down but everything had to be taken in context and thoroughly examined so that lessons could be learnt.
Plain Cloths Police
A liberal MP that was present at this demonstration alleged there were no toilets laid on for the demonstrators and no fresh drinking water?? Unbelievable…
We all saw that Youtube Video clip where SEVERAL yes several demonstrators were coming out of single porta loo’s. The Gold Commander simply sated there were portable toilets. This same MP then alleged that he had evidence that there were a number of plain cloths police officers mixing with the demonstrators, inciting them to throw missiles at the police.
The officer that was in charge of this police operation informed the Chair of this committee that there were NO PLAIN CLOTHS officer on duty at the G20 demonstrations and there were no plain cloths officers deployed to mingle with these demonstrators. In his opinion it would have been too dangerous to put these officers into such a hostile environment and to suggest the police would incite illegal behaviour was repugnant.. that stopped that MP.
When grilled about the containment of these demonstrators, the police said they had two options.. Contain or dispersal. They had tried dispersal at a previous demonstration and these same groups then ran amok committing random acts of criminal damage BUT……. Every officer involved in containing these very specific groups had the discretion to let people go. At no time was it suggested that any group was herded up into tight groups and surrounded by officers that had their arms intertwined.
It was an amazing grilling and a great eye opener and I smiled when the committee stated they did not want a European style of policing
What was not asked was the health and safety responsibilities of the Commissioner in regard to the safety and welfare of his officers, that would have been an interesting debate
One topic that was raised was the term 'kettling'
I took huge amounts of criticism because I had never heard of this termology, had NO IDEA what it meant and suggested that this was a media expression.
This term was raised by the committee and the Commissioner said exactly the same thing, however
What happened at the G20 demonstrations was..
The main demonstration was well organised and well planned
BUT
There were four seperate ILLEGAL demonstrations that were organised by anarchist groups and these demonstrations were designed to....
'Stop London!'
This was the term used by these groups and not the terms created by the police.
Because these four groups were organising this type of demonstration they refused to co-operate with the police, they refused to discuss where they were going to march and they refused to give ANY information. There sole intention was to cause disruption and mayhem.
Because of the lack of information the police then decided to contain these four different groups and try to herd them in directions away from high risk, or vulnerable areas.
It was a ploy by these four groups to manipulate police officers into reacting in an aggressive manner, to create disruption, to go into areas where they could cause the maximum disruption and then take pictures of any acts which they could then interpret as being aggressive. These pictures would be used for maximum effect and maximum exposure.. these four demonstrations had NOTHING to do with the G20 meetings.
unfortunately for Mr Tomlinson he stumbled into the area where the police were involved in containing one such group. there was no'kettling' and groups were being moved away from so called high risk locations, I believe in that very specific case it was the Bank of England.
Police Epalettes
The IPCC has requested from FIVE main television station ANY FOOTAGE they have of ANY OFFICER NOT wearing epaulettes and so far there is not one single piece of footage... Not one single picture has been produced that shows an officer not wearing epaulettes. The Commissioner condemned any officer that deliberately attempted to conceal their identity and is helping the IPCC with investigating all allegations. The IPCC has access to ALL police information regarding the G20, including CCTV, video, and radio logs
This cross examination of these very two high ranking officers was a real eye opener and they were grilled in what appeared quite an aggressive manner but the truth bore no similarity to the mass media frenzy.
The first statement by the police regarding the death of Mr Tomlinson was highlighted and a very senior labour MP tried to suggest there was a police cover up. Unfortunately for this person, the officer that released the press statement... was the Gold Commander who was giving evidence.
This officer stated that inside the operations room the first they new about this incident was when they saw real time footage from a police helicopter. They saw Mr Tomlinson laying on the ground and being treated by a police medical team. Within minutes it was apparent that this person had died and immediately the area was ordered to be cordoned off and treated as a crime scene. The Gold Commander then ordered a senior detective to the scene and treat the death as suspicious. This was done instantly and when cross examined the Gold Commander stated that at the time he had no idea of how this person had been injured, it could have been natural causes, it could have been a mugging, it could have been a fight, it could have been any one of a hundred reasons and at NO TIME did this officer state that Mr Tomlinson had not been in contact with the police. It was a suspicious death and as such was treated with the importance that any murder scene required.
This labour MP then tried to say that he should not have released any statement until he was aware of ALL THE FACTS! This would have taken many, many hours and as was said by the Commissioner…… if they had kept quiet for several hours the media would have gone hysterical.
RIOT POLICE
Again as I said in that other thread.. Apart from the specialised tactical aid groups, every other officer on duty at those demonstrations were ordinary police officers that received at most… two days of training per year, and that is at most. If an officer is off sick on the training day or away on holiday, then they would not even get those two days. It would be fair to say that the great majority of these officers would never have experienced anything like the degree of hostility they had to endure during those demonstrations and no doubt a good number of these officers would have been terrified. The Commissioner conceded that a very few officers might have let themselves down but everything had to be taken in context and thoroughly examined so that lessons could be learnt.
Plain Cloths Police
A liberal MP that was present at this demonstration alleged there were no toilets laid on for the demonstrators and no fresh drinking water?? Unbelievable…
We all saw that Youtube Video clip where SEVERAL yes several demonstrators were coming out of single porta loo’s. The Gold Commander simply sated there were portable toilets. This same MP then alleged that he had evidence that there were a number of plain cloths police officers mixing with the demonstrators, inciting them to throw missiles at the police.
The officer that was in charge of this police operation informed the Chair of this committee that there were NO PLAIN CLOTHS officer on duty at the G20 demonstrations and there were no plain cloths officers deployed to mingle with these demonstrators. In his opinion it would have been too dangerous to put these officers into such a hostile environment and to suggest the police would incite illegal behaviour was repugnant.. that stopped that MP.
When grilled about the containment of these demonstrators, the police said they had two options.. Contain or dispersal. They had tried dispersal at a previous demonstration and these same groups then ran amok committing random acts of criminal damage BUT……. Every officer involved in containing these very specific groups had the discretion to let people go. At no time was it suggested that any group was herded up into tight groups and surrounded by officers that had their arms intertwined.
It was an amazing grilling and a great eye opener and I smiled when the committee stated they did not want a European style of policing
What was not asked was the health and safety responsibilities of the Commissioner in regard to the safety and welfare of his officers, that would have been an interesting debate