Key FOB W163 HELP

Discussion in 'Electronics' started by mode-x, Mar 29, 2014.

  1. mode-x

    mode-x New Member

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    Hi everyone!

    My key fob doesn't lock or unlock any of the doors on my 98 ML320.
    It has never worked since I've had it.

    I recently purchased a new key fob so I could go through the programming sequence in case my current one was completely dead. (Ive already tried new battery's and reprogramming)

    Sequence Ive tried to reprogram is as follows : Turn key to position 2 in the ignition (but do not start the car) turn back off and remove the key. Within 10 seconds press and hold the "Lock" button and simultaniously press the "unlick" button 5 times. After release the "lock" button and try any button.

    This fails on both key fobs.

    I further investigated to find the alarm horn was disconnected if reconnected then the alarm sounds immediately and the indicators flash etc.


    The "Lock All Button" inside the car works and lock and unlock the doors, but again after a few seconds the indicators flash to show alarm is going off and I have to wait about 5 mins for this to stop. I can still start the car and drive it etc.


    ANY help desperately needed here.

    Many Thanks
     
  2. Dec

    Dec Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Your original key is not working properly, you need to test this first.

    You cant program a key from another car to work in your car, it just wont work.

    The alarm siren was probably disconnected because it is faulty or because it cant be turned off because your key fob isn’t working, unlocking the car with the remote key disarms the alarm, in your case, because the key isn’t working, you cant turn off the alarm so that’s why its disconnected.

    Fix or replace the remote key fob will solve the alarm issue… provided there is nothing wrong with the alarm siren.

    Does your key have a Red window like the one in the picture/video below?

    Dec

    [​IMG]

    [YOUTUBE]zQhwvjw29NA[/YOUTUBE]
     
  3. OP
    OP
    mode-x

    mode-x New Member

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    Hi there, (I am presuming something in my original key is working though as the immobiliser reads the chip inside the key? So i can start the car etc.)
    The idea of getting a different key was to reprogram it(use it as a replacement to mine does this not work at all??

    It's Not an infra red key(There is no window) its a wireless key fob using what is probably 433mhz
     
  4. Dec

    Dec Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    If you could reprogram a key that easy then anyone could obtain a similar key, as you have done, and steal another ML.

    Putting the key blade into the ignition lock and turning the key to position 2 should disarm the alarm, if it doesn’t then the alarm siren may be defective, which would also explain why it has been disconnected.

    You could try the test in pictured below, with both keys, to see if you can pick up the RF sound in the link below.
    It’s the only way I know, without skill/specials equipment, to test an RF remote, with patience you should be able to pick up the interference/radio signal through the radio.
    Listen to the sound file below so you know what the test will sound like.

    Not sure about your car but you may have a transponder chip (immobiliser chip) glued inside the remote as illustrated on the ONE BUTTON remote in the picture below, I think the alarm and immobiliser are separate, the immobiliser is deactivated when the transponder chip, (inside the key) if you have one, is within the area of the ignition switch and the alarm and the central locking is controlled by the remote buttons when you lock/unlock.

    [​IMG]



    Sounds like this here… http://homepage.eircom.net/~decdec/fobsound.wma

    [​IMG]
    Dec
     
  5. DSM10000

    DSM10000 Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    The immobiliser chip is powered by an inductive loop in the ignition switch, as has been said, you cannot just buy another key and program that to your car.

    Keys need to be ordered from Mercedes in Germany (there are one or two companies that also seem to be able to supply them) as the key needs to be factory programmed to your vehicle. Keys cost around £220.

    It might be worth getting a Star test from a local MB specialist to see if there are any other faults that may prevent your original key from working correctly.
     
  6. nigel cross

    nigel cross Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    You say you purchased a new key fob, were from?
    New ones from MB have to be configured by them.
     
  7. OP
    OP
    mode-x

    mode-x New Member

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    Thank you all very much :)

    DEC --- I will test this and see, "If you could reprogram a key that easy then anyone could obtain a similar key, as you have done, and steal another ML." this information is in the owners manual to reprogram a key to the vehicle.

    **care IndexSynchronizing remote control
    If the remote control does not function correctly and the
    batteries are in order, the system may have to be
    resynchronized.
    Turn key in steering lock to position 2, then to
    position 0 and remove.
    Within 10 seconds, push and hold button "LOCK"

    while
    pushing button "UNLOCK"

    five times.
    Release the button, and press "LOCK",
    "UNLOCK"

    or "BOOT RELEASE"

    once.
    Check all functions. The remote control should once
    again be operational.**


    DSM10000: A star test? Is this like just plugging in my OBD2 scanner to check for fault codes? Or does it have to be a Mercedes dealer?

    Nigel_Cross: The Key was purchased from Ebay there appeared to be a lot on there and I have read the above process being used to "sync" a key.


    I understand what everyone is saying to steal another MB but to do this you would need to initally gain access without setting the alarm off, use the "original" key to access the ignition barrel (because of the induction loop for the immobiliser) so if you already had the original key there would be no need to copy it and steal car (you would just use the original key??
    If you did manage to gain access without forcing an entry or setting the alarm off then again the original key would still be needed to get the car started so again no need to copy or reprogram a new key?
    Or am I completly off track with that?


    If my alarm itself is faulty is it something i can buy and swap out myself?
     
  8. Dec

    Dec Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    The instructions are to Resynchronise the key not to Reprogram it.If you take more than a minute to change the key battries then the key will lose its memory, Resynching the key as per your instructions will make the key work again… provided it is not faulty.
    This guy here … Contact Us - ReplacementMercedesKeys - Mercedes keys programmed and repaired! - Mercedes key …is unable to make a flip out key for an ML so presumably he cant reprogram this key from another car to yours.

    The alarm siren, if it is faulty, can be replaced for about £100 if you do DIY. Easy to do, plug and play.
    Fix the key issue first, replacing the alarm siren won’t fix the key, if the key is at fault.

    You have to first establish if it is the key that’s at fault or if it’s the car that’s at fault.
    Try the radio test first, it will work with anything like RF remote, RF doorbells/garage door openers.

    If you open up the remote fob be careful that no small components fall out.

    An example of the internals of a similar type of remote to yours in video below. If you do open it check for any broken solder joints or lose components. Open the other non-original key as well for comparison as it probably is not damaged.

    [YOUTUBE]lCqfivH9-Dg[/YOUTUBE]
    Dec
     
  9. OP
    OP
    mode-x

    mode-x New Member

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    Right I will start a process to determine which is at fault then take it from there, I did try to get the remote fob open but all i can manage is the battery cover the rest seems very well joined together to the point if i forced it the plastic feels like it would break.

    Any suggestions on the best way to get the key opened up?
    And yes matching the two internals of the keys makes sense to try too.
     
  10. Dec

    Dec Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Its good plastic, you wont brake it, if you do, you have a spare shell.
    [​IMG]
     
  11. OP
    OP
    mode-x

    mode-x New Member

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    I tried the knife thing and it just chipped a chunknof plastic off :S
     

    Attached Files:

  12. Dec

    Dec Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Are both keys the same, perhaps its been super glued, the guy in the video above is able to open it by hand, perhaps try twisting the coins instead of the knife.
    Dec
     
  13. OP
    OP
    mode-x

    mode-x New Member

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    The coins just lift the edges of the plastic so most likely it has been glued then I'll have to try and prise or break it open and get the internals out somehow. At least like you said I have the second key so I can just place the internals into its casing. (I only have my original key with me at the moment.
     
  14. Dec

    Dec Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    The other key may be easier to open… hope it’s not glued as well… seeing the key opened will help in assessing whats preventing the original key from opening.

    Dec
     
    1 person likes this.
  15. DSM10000

    DSM10000 Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    As said, you cannot program another key to the car no matter what your eBay seller may claim.

    Star is the MB diagnostic computer and far more advanced than your OBD scanner,. Most independent MB garages have it as well and are usually much cheaper for diagnostics. It may be that the internal receiver unit is faulty and not responding, assuming that you do have one functioning key.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2014
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  16. OP
    OP
    mode-x

    mode-x New Member

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    Sorry for the delay but those manual tune radios are little hard to find. But I have one and my keyfob is sending out the signal. Both keys were glued together as well but hopefully don't need to take them apart now.

    I presume my next step is take the siren apart? Or does anyone have a schematic of the alarm system, location of components?

    Or do i need to check anything else first??

    Thank you
     
  17. Dec

    Dec Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Which key fob is sending out the signal, the original key fob for your car OR the key fob you bought from eBay?

    If your original key fob is in working order… and I stress that the radio is the only way I know of testing an RF fob without specialist skills /equipment … then you should consider replacing the siren, open it up first to have a look but the fact that the alarm was triggered and the siren did not sound does confirm that it is faulty.

    As to whether replacing the siren will fix the fault remains to be seen.

    Don’t buy a second hand siren, buy new from MB dealer, around £100.

    Example of siren internals… Alarm / Siren Issues : Goes off for no reason/Kills Battery FIX DIY.. - MBWorld.org Forums

    Dec
     
  18. ShaunB

    ShaunB Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    If you're sure the key is an original key which used to work with the car, then the company 'replacement mercedes keys' is where I'd be heading/posting things to.
     
  19. OP
    OP
    mode-x

    mode-x New Member

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    hi yes my original fob is working and sending signals out (like you say tested as best as I can with a radio) the siren does go off, once it's plugged in it goes off straight away. The alarm goes off if I active the 'lock all' button inside the car. But still with the siren connected the fob doesn't seem to affect the armin or disarming or lock / unlock.

    I have a couple of those sealed batteries like in the images but will chexk for corrosion etc first.

    Is there anywhere in particular that picks up the signal from the fob? I.e. am airel for the alarm system?
     
  20. Dec

    Dec Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    I was confused as your previous post which implied that you thought you removed a speaker and not the alarm siren so I presumed you removed the car horn.
    Anyway A 171 820 25 26 is the alarm siren, these sirens usually give trouble when the are around 10 years old.
    I’m surprised that the lights are flashing with the alarm siren removed from the car.

    It’s a bit late in the thread but have all fuses been checked, the receiver for the RF fob signal will have a fuse somewhere, it might share a fuse for the alarm and the radio antenna in the rear window.

    You should hear the sound in this link here if your computer speakers are turned up… http://homepage.eircom.net/~decdec/fobsound.wma

    [​IMG]

    In the picture above I referred to FM wave band but I think FM is now called AM?
    Just tune the radio slowly across until you hear the fob sound, it is better in different parts of the wave band, usually near weak radio stations.

    Dec
     
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