Learner driver flips car on roof in Oxford

[wemorgan]

BBC News - Learner driver flips car on roof in Oxford

"The instructor was very quiet and calm he just said 'accidents happen', but the driver was in real shock and kept saying she couldn't believe it."

Is someone going to call him up and offer him a LifeHammer for the bargain price of £7?

 

[grober]

If it had been a Toyota then of course the driver could not have been at fault!

 

[tromppost]

That will be on the Fiat dealers forecourt tomorrow, one owner as new!!

 

[moonloops]

"I saw it roll on to its side and on to its roof. I hoped no-one was seriously injured and I was worried it would catch on fire if fuel was leaking."

What - was it a Hollywood movie or something

 

[Gridlock]

I sincerely hope the conversation in the OP ("accidents happen.." "I can't believe it!") happened while they were both still buckled in and hanging upside down

If this were a test, would they have failed? Can't recall any part mentioning not sticking the car upside down. "Inappropriate use of roof" perhaps?

 

[flango]

Another good example of how carp the 500 is both in terms of handling and safety. I would never ever let any of my family travel in one of these things let alone learn to drive in one, in terms of poor safety it's only beaten by the first vesion of the Twingo which was banned in Britain.

 

[st4]

Another good example of how carp the 500 is both in terms of handling and safety. I would never ever let any of my family travel in one of these things let alone learn to drive in one, in terms of poor safety it's only beaten by the first vesion of the Twingo which was banned in Britain.

I'm inclined to agree with you despite euro NCAP and the press reviews. Its based on the Panda which is an appalling heap of junk, poor handling, tinny inside, just grotty.

Was the Twingo banned, or did Renault just not do RHD on it for engineering reasons or choose not to import the car.

I don't like small cars anyway, wouldn't have anything smaller than a Focus/Golf.

 

[Gridlock]

Reading the article I think all that happened is that the driver accelerated uncontrollably, hit a gate post and was launched into the air in a roll - would have been the same result whether a Fiat 500 or any other car with sufficient lightness.

The fact they both walked away and the cabin seems more or less intact suggests it did its job OK?

 

[wemorgan]

A roll-over is one loadcase where low mass (often same as size) is an advantage. As the vehicle rolls over it's kinetic energy is a function of its mass, with roads being rigid all the force is reflected on to the car.

Thankfully most modern vehicle's are quite good in roll-overs these days, have you seen how large the A and B pillars are? But older 4x4 can be quite poor. I guess Ian doesn't need me telling him that with what his wife recently went through. She did well to be relatively lightly injured, but the deformation to her car's A-pillar was quite significant IMHO.

 

[flango]

A roll-over is one loadcase where low mass (often same as size) is an advantage. As the vehicle rolls over it's kinetic energy is a function of its mass, with roads being rigid all the force is reflected on to the car.

Thankfully most modern vehicle's are quite good in roll-overs these days, have you seen how large the A and B pillars are? But older 4x4 can be quite poor. I guess Ian doesn't need me telling him that with what his wife recently went through. She did well to be relatively lightly injured, but the deformation to her car's A-pillar was quite significant IMHO.

This is spot on, modern cars do stand up better because of the size of the A & B pillars, the A pillar damage on Janes car was very significant and thank god there was no one in the passenger seat, but get a vehicle weighing over 2 tonnes into a roll and it takes some stopping.

Which then begs the question if the air bags had not deployed in Janes car throwing her hands off the wheel I am pretty sure she would have been able to have controlled it and would not have rolled, would still have been trashed by the wall impact but she would have kept it upright, also a lot of the cuts and grazes came from the airbag deployment. Good or Bad yes they do save lives in Head on's but in this situation it made it worse.

Now I understand why they don't fit airbags to race cars

 

[prprandall51]

...Which then begs the question if the air bags had not deployed in Janes car throwing her hands off the wheel I am pretty sure she would have been able to have controlled it and would not have rolled, would still have been trashed by the wall impact but she would have kept it upright, also a lot of the cuts and grazes came from the airbag deployment. Good or Bad yes they do save lives in Head on's but in this situation it made it worse.

Now I understand why they don't fit airbags to race cars

As she couldn't control the car to prevent the accident in the first place and, as the air bag deployment is an indication of a severe impact of a speed such that any driver would almost certainly be completely disorientated, it seems highly unlikely that the air bag deployment prevented the roll over from being avoided?

 

[flango]

As she couldn't control the car to prevent the accident in the first place and, as the air bag deployment is an indication of a severe impact of a speed such that any driver would almost certainly be completely disorientated, it seems highly unlikely that the air bag deployment prevented the roll over from being avoided?

No not at all the reason she could not control the car to avoid the collision with the wall was down to the width of the road 3.7m. Impact speed was 38 mph. She had already started to correct swerve by the tyre blow out and the car was straightening up when it ran out of room and hit the wall, her hands were blown off the wheel by the airbag and the steering changed direction flipping the car. If her hands had still been on the wheel at the point of impacting the wall the steering would have been pulling the back end of the car round which would also have hit the wall thus preventing the roll.

 

[Gridlock]

Or she could have 2 snapped thumbs, or worse...

 

[flango]

Or she could have 2 snapped thumbs, or worse...

True lesser of 2 evils I guess but suspect she would have opted for the 2 broken thumbs instead of the injuries she sustained. But you are correct the outcome could never be predicted either with or without airbag, thankfully it all turned out OK and she survived

 

[prprandall51]

True lesser of 2 evils I guess but suspect she would have opted for the 2 broken thumbs instead of the injuries she sustained. But you are correct the outcome could never be predicted either with or without airbag, thankfully it all turned out OK and she survived

It looks like you could have predicted the outcome very precisely.

 

[Sorry Pete]

(Lifts head above parapet) Was it a woman driver?

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Looks like it's easily done!

 

[flango]

It looks like you could have predicted the outcome very precisely.

All I can predict is the outcome if I had been driving and the airbag had not gone off, I guaruntee you it would not have rolled. I think the same would also be true of Mrs F who is also a very skilled driver.

However once the air bag goes of as I pointed out the game changes from control to survival, the car is now out of your control so accept it get into the crash position and prey, which is what she did ( first time she has done anything I have told her in 24 years )

Once you are in the crash position it minimises injuries this is why she did not have any broken bones as her legs were out of the way of the looming bulkhead and pedals and her arms were tucked in so no danger of going outside the car sustaining crush injuries.

 

[renault12ts]

Airbags can be dangerous. How many times do you see people (usually women) sitting too close to the steering wheel such that if the airbag is deployed it could actually very seriously injure or even kill.

I have even to-day seen people with children of their knees in the front of cars. This would be bad enough in pre-airbag days...but to-day the airbag would render the baby mush.

 

[Gridlock]

What do you think an airbag does to someone who smokes a pipe in their car then?

 

[flango]

What do you think an airbag does to someone who smokes a pipe in their car then?

Have you never seen the in car video from the US on an insurance camera where the airbag deploys in an acccident and unfortunately the driver is sucking a pen that goes right through and out the back of his skull like a missile. That shocks a few on driver training courses I can tell you! Thats why you never eat, drink or smoke at the wheel, Imagine if the airbag went off and you had a coke can or bottle in front of your face at the time