Leased car modifications - when does a lease car NOT get inspected??

[Psilonaught]

Towards the end of my 3 years of ownership I'll be selling on to a dealer to pocket the expected equity (balloon is a small £17k), rather than returning the car to the lease company. I assume the car gets inspected before I can sell, or is that not true??

Under what circumstances do lease cars not get inspected by the finance company?? I'm thinking they only get inspected if you return the car to the finance company and not sell to a dealer, or is that not true?

I want to paint the wheels and modify the exhaust.

 

[Alex]

Those sound like reversible changes. Perhaps you can return back to standard when you sell?

 

[Headhurts]

I’m a bit confused (normal) if leased you return the car to whomever the lease company authorises to collect.

You would not have any right to get money from the car as it is purely leased.

When I returned mine the car was inspected at collection, it was quite a thorough evaluation of car and equipment supplied.

If you are talking PCP that is different and £17,000 left over sounds optimistic to me but I have only had one car on PCP and the excess was only enough for a deposit on another car.

I could be wrong though as I have not leased for a while but the excess quote on my E Class was no where near your figure but maybe yours is an AMG so they do fetch more.

Robin


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Psilonaught]

Sorry the car is on PCP. The balloon is £17k, eg if it is worth more than this at the end of the term the difference is my equity.

I'm pretty sure of if I sell it to a dealer, they will want to check it over obviously, but they won't be fussing over wheels of they are original, just black.

 

[st13phil]

If you sell a PCP car to a dealer then they will agree a value with you based on how the car is presented to them. Modifications may or may not affect the value offered - that's up to the dealer as they're buying the car from you. Painting the wheels is unlikely to be an issue, but a retail dealer may baulk at exhaust modifications and lower their offer by however much it will cost them to return it to standard. This is because it is illegal to modify an exhaust system in such a way that it changes the emissions of the vehicle or makes it noisier than standard. Most owners don't bother about that, but a retail dealer could be in difficulty if they sell it on.

The balloon payment is your responsibility to make, but for convenience and their own protection, the dealer will normally pay the Finance Company directly and pay you any balance over and above the outstanding settlement sum. It's only if you return the car at the end of the PCP and walk away that the Finance Company will arrange a returned vehicle inspection.

 

[Psilonaught]

Ok thanks that's a helpful explanation. I'll get the wheels done so they look identical to the black OEMs so they wont notice and leave the exhaust.

 

[whitenemesis]

As you don't own the car you would have to get the finance company's permission before doing any modifications.
Watch out for insurance complications...

 

[clk320x]

Perhaps an easier option would be to buy a set of alloys in the colour you like, use and sell them on when you return the car with its original wheels.

I wouldn’t touch the exhaust personally.

 

[BTB 500]

it is illegal to modify an exhaust system in such a way that it changes the emissions of the vehicle or makes it noisier than standard.

Are you referring to some specific legislation here, or is this a reference to the MOT?

It's certainly possible to fail an MOT on noise, but only if the inspector considers it to be 'unreasonable' e.g.

A silencer in such condition, or of such a type, that the noise emitted from the vehicle is clearly unreasonably above the level expected from a similar vehicle with a standard silencer in average condition.

And emissions are either within spec. or not (aftermarket cats are fine so long as the levels remain within the permitted range).

??

 

[Eddy77]

If you want maximum resale in three years time, do not modify at all. Leave it as is. No MB dealer will want to pay top dollar for a car with non standard wheels (or exhaust). Just not desirable on a newish Mercedes imho

 

[219]

On 'our' leased cars , modifications usually mean the addition of blue lights and sirens .

These are normally removed before the vehicle is returned so vehicle goes back in original spec .

 

[st13phil]

Are you referring to some specific legislation here, or is this a reference to the MOT?

WRT noise, there is specific legislation that prohibits the on road use of a vehicle which has an exhaust system that is louder than the standard factory fit exhaust. It's a contravention of the vehicle Type Approval. An aftermarket exhaust system must meet Type Approval requirements for it to be legal on the road, otherwise it is deemed as "not for road use". Interestingly, a Police Officer's opinion that a non-standard exhaust system is noisier than a standard one (i.e. it doesn't require an objective instrument test) is sufficient to support a conviction unless it can be shown that it carries Type Approval for that vehicle.

WRT emissions, it's a similar story in that you invalidate the vehicle's Type Approval if the emission control system is modified in such a way that the modified vehicle exceeds the emission parameters that it would have achieved if it were unmodified. In the best tradition of un-joined-up thinking, the MOT test only determines if the vehicle emissions are within prescribed limits for the generic type (e.g. EU5), so you can pass an MOT but still contravene the vehicle's Type Approval.

 

[BTB 500]

WRT noise, there is specific legislation that prohibits the on road use of a vehicle which has an exhaust system that is louder than the standard factory fit exhaust. It's a contravention of the vehicle Type Approval. An aftermarket exhaust system must meet Type Approval requirements for it to be legal on the road, otherwise it is deemed as "not for road use". Interestingly, a Police Officer's opinion that a non-standard exhaust system is noisier than a standard one (i.e. it doesn't require an objective instrument test) is sufficient to support a conviction unless it can be shown that it carries Type Approval for that vehicle.

WRT emissions, it's a similar story in that you invalidate the vehicle's Type Approval if the emission control system is modified in such a way that the modified vehicle exceeds the emission parameters that it would have achieved if it were unmodified.

That's very interesting - do you have a reference? It seems strange that there's a whole industry supporting exhaust mods. (which you can and should declare for insurance as well) if they are all illegal?! How does anyone know what specific exhaust sound and emission levels an unmodified vehicle should meet? Wouldn't emissions change (get worse) with age/mileage? And surely many cars on the road pre-date Type Approval anyway?

 

[st13phil]

That's very interesting - do you have a reference?

Here ya go, fill yer boots!

It seems strange that there's a whole industry supporting exhaust mods. (which you can and should declare for insurance as well) if they are all illegal?!

It is neither illegal to manufacture or to sell such components, but absent Type Approval it is illegal to use them on the road.

And here is Essex Police's guidance on loud exhausts.

 

[BTB 500]

Here ya go, fill yer boots!It is neither illegal to manufacture or to sell such components, but absent Type Approval it is illegal to use them on the road.

And here is Essex Police's guidance on loud exhausts.

Again, that's very interesting - thanks. The specific Construction & Use regulations referred to regarding exhaust noise make no reference to EU Type Approval of course as presumably they pre-date it (as do many cars):


Silencers
54.—(1) Every vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine shall be fitted with an exhaust system including a silencer and the exhaust gases from the engine shall not escape into the atmosphere without first passing through the silencer.

(2) Every exhaust system and silencer shall be maintained in good and efficient working order and shall not be altered so as to increase the noise made by the escape of exhaust gases.


In light of this it still seems odd to me that virtually every UK insurance company allows declaration of 'illegal' exhaust mods. on vehicles that are insured for normal road use!

Regarding EU Whole Vehicle Type Approval in general ... ECWVTA includes (for example) brakes and tyres. Replacement tyres / disks / pads etc. over the life of the vehicle will vary in characteristics and definitely won't match the original tested specification ... but I'm pretty sure this doesn't render the vehicle illegal? After all some cars are fitted with skinny wheels and tyres to get them into a certain emissions (and therefore road tax) bracket when first tested, but owners are allowed to use wider wheels/tyres on them without any penalty (as I understand it).

 

[219]

All very laudable, and no doubt aimed at boy racers who like to make a lot of noise .

I’d imagine , though , that a lot of the cars in those circles , like my own , will predate type approval , so much of the above will be null and void , and any action will rely on charges such as causing a disturbance of the peace or DWDCA .

 

[219]

Again, that's very interesting - thanks. The specific Construction & Use regulations referred to regarding exhaust noise make no reference to EU Type Approval of course as presumably they pre-date it (as do many cars):


Silencers
54.—(1) Every vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine shall be fitted with an exhaust system including a silencer and the exhaust gases from the engine shall not escape into the atmosphere without first passing through the silencer.

(2) Every exhaust system and silencer shall be maintained in good and efficient working order and shall not be altered so as to increase the noise made by the escape of exhaust gases.


In light of this it still seems odd to me that virtually every UK insurance company allows declaration of 'illegal' exhaust mods. on vehicles that are insured for normal road use!

Regarding EU Whole Vehicle Type Approval in general ... ECWVTA includes (for example) brakes and tyres. Replacement tyres / disks / pads etc. over the life of the vehicle will vary in characteristics and definitely won't match the original tested specification ... but I'm pretty sure this doesn't render the vehicle illegal? After all some cars are fitted with skinny wheels and tyres to get them into a certain emissions (and therefore road tax) bracket when first tested, but owners are allowed to use wider wheels/tyres on them without any penalty (as I understand it).

Indeed , I have on a number of occasions had stainless steel exhaust systems fitted to my cars , with the clear specification , from me , that they should be no noisier than the original system ( in all but one case that was the case , and that one wasn’t much noisier , not so that anyone but me would notice ) . Each time , I have always informed my insurers, that the systems were fitted for longevity and not for noise or performance; and each time it was noted but no additional charge made .

I doubt though , that the police are all that interested in well maintained classic cars with stainless steel systems fitted to avoid ongoing replacements.

 

[BTB 500]

I doubt though , that the police are all that interested in well maintained classic cars with stainless steel systems fitted to avoid ongoing replacements.

I'm sure you're right ... the guidelines linked to are from the Essex Police after all, and do refer to "cars which are traditionally marketed towards the ‘cruiser’ customer base such as ST, VXR and GT variations of popular models"

But it is interesting to note that any exhaust which is louder (even slightly) than the original fitment is actually illegal, even if in practice this wouldn't (or couldn't) be enforced in the vast majority of cases.