legal advice

[chrisbrad66]

Hello not too sure if this is the right forum but no doubt it will be moved if not lol, i need a bit of legal advice from a solicitor if there is one on the site, concerning me part exchanging a car without knowing there was still finance on it from the previous owner before i bought it. Incidentley i bought the car from a dealer who has since ceased trading and paid cash, he promised me it was HPI clear and wrote it on the receipt. I owned the car (A w220 S class) for 18 months then part exchanged it with mercedes direct for a new c class, they then sold it at auction and the new buyer has brought this outstanding finance to thier attention, mercedes then phoned me demanding i pay the outstanding finance back to them, and then try to get the money from the previous owner myself or they will take the new car back,i have said no because it is not my debt, what are my rights and can they take the new car back
Any help would be greatly appreciated??

 

[gina2201]

Surely Mercedes should have done their own checks as should have the new buyer at auction? I don't know....(sorry)

Good Luck though.

 

[chrisbrad66]

they did and it did bring up the oustanding finance, but i showed them the original purchase receipt and the assurance from the dealer the finance was settled, which thay happily accepted as i did when i bought the car

 

[Dieselman]

If they have paid you then the car is theirs and they now have the liability.

I'm surprised the finance company hadn't chased you for the debt while the car was in your possession.

 

[stevesey]

I'm surprised the finance company hadn't chased you for the debt while the car was in your possession.

Hm - finance company wouldn't be whoever handles mercedes in house finance would it.

 

[Smiley]

I assume this is several thousand pounds?

I recommend you invest in a solicitor's time right now.

This case is not straightforward as it appears that you made representation about the status of the vehicle - and that representation was given by a third party.

You may be liable - thats why you need proper advice.

 

[Satch]

You (and the dodgey dealer and MB and the new owner) never legally owned the vehicle so it is a bit fraught.

Good news is that the Consumer Credit Act gives some protection to the first 'innocent private purchaser' of the vehicle who can get good title.

http://www.hants.gov.uk/regulatory/tradingstandards/financial-services10.html

I think Mercedes direct are talking crap.

(a) They failed in the proper due diligence that any professional should do and are therefore negligent. They have a consumer credit licence and should know better.

(b) The original person who took out the HP is still liable but your chances of getting anything back are nil

(c) The new owner is right to be hacked off and looking to MB for redress

I would get the name of the finance company, attempt to obtain good title as described above and all is well. In the meantime tell MB to sod off because you, they and the new owner are now only in this fix because of their gross negligence in not doing a proper HP check.

(d)

 

[wemorgan]

In short, seek proper legal advice. From personal experience this is the only way to be as sure as possible that you have take the correct action.
Best wishes.

edit: this issues sounds like one which I am sure solicitors have seen before and hence should not cost too much to address, most likely less than <£500

 

[chrisbrad66]

Mercedes did a proper hpi check while i was there and brought it to my attention, however when i showed them the receipt stating h.p.i. clear for the old car they accepted this, no more questions asked, The debt is over £7000, the finance company in question is Santander, whom i have contacted this week, they have stated it is not my problem as it is not my debt but froma previous owner in Glasgow, and i bought the car from a dealer in good faith. However Mercedes direct are still demanding i settle the oustanding finance myself or lose my new car, they have given me till the end of next week, i told santander the response from Mercedes direct and they have asked mercedes direct to contact them as they cannot take my new car back. Still i'm worried that it will all go pear shape and i will lose my new car and my old one and end up with nothing but a huge legal bill

 

[Will Kelly]

Don`t lose too much sleep over it, you`re not liable for the debt, they will contact you first as a matter of elimination before proceeding on to writing off the shortfall, you were the legal owner for 18 mths, i have to ask did you in that time add a cherished number to the car ? as a finance house in the 18mths would generally report the car as "flight" to the police for them to recover, lost or stolen? you should contact the trading standards officer in your area,giving him details of the trader that sold you the car you never know their history they may have done this before hence why they folded, even though he has ceased trading the TS could build a case against him to prosecute. hope this gives you some comfort, let me know how it pans out.

 

[gina2201]

Surely the dealer who sold you the car has a responsibilty under Sale of Goods Act to sell as described ie HPI clear.

I had an issue with a (albeit smaller matter) and Trading Standards were excellent.

 

[Ronnie]

Both MB and the Auctioneers ....and possibly the company you purchased it from...have failed to follow normal procedures.....i.e. HPI the vehicle.....it is essential for all of these "professional" companies to have taken such steps as a matter of course...not just when they are suspicious of the vendor.....
At the same time it is only a recommendation and prudent for members of the General Public to follow this procedure......
I believe that a Court of Law would not even consider them getting monies from you, due to their failure to follow the basic procedures, which is without doubt part of their company policy and procedures anyway...they have failed in their duty and deserve the repercussions for their own shortcomings...
Keep hold of your money and wait until someone wants to waste money taking you to court which I doubt they will...

 

[chrisbrad66]

Don`t lose too much sleep over it, you`re not liable for the debt, they will contact you first as a matter of elimination before proceeding on to writing off the shortfall, you were the legal owner for 18 mths, i have to ask did you in that time add a cherished number to the car ? as a finance house in the 18mths would generally report the car as "flight" to the police for them to recover, lost or stolen? you should contact the trading standards officer in your area,giving him details of the trader that sold you the car you never know their history they may have done this before hence why they folded, even though he has ceased trading the TS could build a case against him to prosecute. hope this gives you some comfort, let me know how it pans out.

when i bought the car it had a cherished number on it which the dealer kept and put it back on its original number i.e. Y973RES i then put my cherished number on the car 2 months later

 

[chrisbrad66]

might i just add,i think Mercedes direct only want me to settle the outstanding finance so they themselves are not out of pocket and do not have to waste time and money sorting this mess out, i think they are trying to frighten me by saying they will take my new car back if i don't pay, ( i don't frighten easy. ex Northern ireland veteran LOL)

 

[Dieselman]

Put the conclusion of your conversations with Santander in writing and send it to Mercedes Direct via recorded delivery.
That way they cannot be mistaken that Santander have agreed you should not be persued for the outstanding finance and do not accept they should recover the car they sold you.

Ask Santander for their position in writing.

 

[Satch]

It seems pretty clear: get Santander to formally confirm that you have (or had) good title to the car. Send that to MB and invite them to sod off.

That means you sold it free and clear to MB who sold it in similar state to new owner. Everybody is happy and nobody has lost out, apart from Satander who will have to recover the debt from the original defaulter.

Sound to me like you are dealing with a twerp at MB direct.

 

[NewMB]

It seems pretty clear: get Santander to formally confirm that you have (or had) good title to the car. Send that to MB and invite them to sod off.

That means you sold it free and clear to MB who sold it in similar state to new owner. Everybody is happy and nobody has lost out, apart from Satander who will have to recover the debt from the original defaulter.

Sound to me like you are dealing with a twerp at MB direct.

Unfortunately, this is not as straight forward as everyone seems to think. Santander will never send such letter (see below).

No, I am not a solicitor but I know the outcome.


1. Dealer sells car to client. Has outstanding finance, but shows a "clean" HPI (this HPI is normally printed before the Finance is taken out).

2. You drive home in your new car, happy as a daisy.

3. You either keep the car or sell it on (makes no difference).

4. Dealer who sold you the car goes into Liquidation.

5. You (or the new owner you sold the car to), are contacted by the finance company, in this scenario - Santander. They claim that they still have titel in the car and wants it back (or money). You (or new owner) protest of course, saying that you bought the car clean HPI etc etc etc. They then tell you that the seller had no legal right to sell the car, without asking them for permission first.

Problem here is of course that you never took out this agreement, the dealer did. But the dealer does not even trade anymore so Santander is going after the first buyer. Legally, they are 100% correct, they still do own that car, even if you sold it on and as you were the "first" buyer since the dealer (who does not exist anymore) you will get for it.

You could always fight this in court, but the chance of Santader loosing this is almost zero.

6. You contact a solicitor for help. Not much they can do except charge you a £1000 for sending a few letters to the former directors (I can help you finding these addresses) and then trying to convince the court (only the liquidated company's liquidator can ask a court for permission) that the director of the company who sold you the car has misrepresented the company under law so and so. This is the tricky bit.

The liquidator will always pay salaries, tax, vat etc first, then everybody else, including a finance company. So they go after the easy target first.


Of course, contacting Trading Standard is a very good bet. They are very helpful in my experience.

Someone else mentioned about "Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974". This is only valid if you pay a deposit on the car (or anything) above £100.01 and less then £30,000. So for example, you pay a deposit on a car at £500 using your credit card and then pay the balance on collection of the car using your debit card. You are protected. Any cash or cheque, you would not be covered. You can only claim this through your credit card company upto 6 months after the transaction.

I am happy to help as I said. Just send a PM.