Legal number-plates

[MOCAŠ]

Police trace bank robber James Snell’s car through his personalised number plate | The Sun |News

£100,000 bank robbers jailed - Wales News - News - WalesOnline

Fair enough, but what if the number had actually been JAM 3S or JAM 35, but bunched-up looked like JAMES to onlookers? With standard spacing it would have read J4 MES, so less room for ambiguity. It's all very well saying what the plate looked like, but that could still leave police with a whole list of possible combinations to work through.

 

[Mr. B]

Regarding ANPR cameras they do not read italic number plates.

They don't read the majority of number plates that have been altered.

They don't read in the snow or heavy rain.

If an ANPR camera fails to read a number plate then it is corroborating evidence that the number plate is illegal.

 

[scottishman2]

I think all cars should have a number plate bolted to the underside ... so the poor guy that gets run over can read it while waiting for the ambulance....

 

[LTD]

... They don't read in the snow or heavy rain.

If an ANPR camera fails to read a number plate then it is corroborating evidence that the number plate is illegal.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Fair enough, but what if the number had actually been JAM 3S or JAM 35, but bunched-up looked like JAMES to onlookers? With standard spacing it would have read J4 MES, so less room for ambiguity. It's all very well saying what the plate looked like, but that could still leave police with a whole list of possible combinations to work through.

Those are good examples of why there should be no need to mis-space, because it's obvious what all three are intended to read, even when spaced correctly. Removing the space doesn't make it more 'readable'.

 

[MD5]

Fair enough, but what if the number had actually been JAM 3S or JAM 35, but bunched-up looked like JAMES to onlookers? With standard spacing it would have read J4 MES, so less room for ambiguity. It's all very well saying what the plate looked like, but that could still leave police with a whole list of possible combinations to work through.

Depending of the severity of what was witnessed, the shock of a situation can cause confusion. JAMES, which ever way it was remembered, was remembered, even if with three options. XN 54 HGK may not be so memorable, as intimated earlier. If the font hasn't been altered, it will read correctly whichever way it is spaced. If the comprehension is too difficult, I'd question the calibre of the witness. Fog doesn't come into it.

I've mentioned elsewhere about the incorrect usage of font by manufacturers when using the number 0. Why do they use O? That would clarify any ambiguities that Mocas has previously demonstrated!

 

[LTD]

I've mentioned elsewhere about the incorrect usage of font by manufacturers when using the number 0. Why do they use O? That would clarify any ambiguities that Mocas has previously demonstrated!

It's not the plate manufacturers that are at fault over the 0/O usage.

They are conforming to the DVLA specifications.

I know, I used to have OOO3 *** (*** being my initials). Oxford issue plate sold by the DVLA.

 

[MOCAŠ]

Depending of the severity of what was witnessed, the shock of a situation can cause confusion. JAMES, which ever way it was remembered, was remembered, even if with three options. XN 54 HGK may not be so memorable, as intimated earlier. If the font hasn't been altered, it will read correctly whichever way it is spaced. If the comprehension is too difficult, I'd question the calibre of the witness. Fog doesn't come into it.

A little clarity, please.

a) You acknowledge that shock can cause confusion, yet the question the calibre of a witness that cannot reverse-engineer a mis-spaced plate into its original format.

b) You're stating that J4MES is more memorable than XN54 HGK. Well, there's a surprise! The real question is whether J4 MES is preferable to J4MES, and whether XN54 HGK is better than XN54HGK. Let's not start comparing apples with pears.

Plates like J4 MES are excpetional, though. Most cars involved in incidents will have standard 7-digit plates, and one of the benefits of maintaing the space is that it breaks the plate up into smaller chunks that are easier to comprehend (in the same way that most people split up phone numbers and bank card numbers).

Tyring to read and remember any 7-digit plate as one long string of characters is going to be more difficult than it would be if the space were present.

I've mentioned elsewhere about the incorrect usage of font by manufacturers when using the number 0. Why do they use O? That would clarify any ambiguities that Mocas has previously demonstrated!

Essentially this is a throwback to the pre-suffix days, and pre-dates the widespread differentiation between the letter O and zero. Back in those days, typewriters tended not to have a separate key for zero (and sometimes not even for 1 - people often used to type 1000, for instance, as Iooo). Only the professional print industry tended to make the distinction.

When it came to number plates, the distiction between letters and numbers was made by using separate groupings for letters and numbers (hence the space), so if you saw what looked like R00 700 - you instinctively knew that the first two 0s were letters and the second two were numbers. With the advent of the suffix letter in 1963, this distinction was maintained by omitting the suffixes I and O - so again, it didn't matter that the same characters were used so there was no need to upset the apple cart.

What's surprising is that the introduction of the current series in 2001 meant that for the first time an O and and a zero could legitimately be placed directly next to each other. Bearing in mind that this coincided with introduction of Chares Wright, it's even more surprising that they didn't take the opportunity to use different characters for O/0 and I/1. (In fact, up until 2001 there had always been some number plate fonts in use that featured a 1 with one or more serifs, but take-up was negligible.)

The reason for maintianing the ambiguity between these characters may well have been to do with helping to promote the DVLA's sales of numberplates, and that would appear to be the reasoning behind the proposed relaxing of the display regualtions to make the space optional. However, I doubt that it will be accompanied by any revision to Charles Wright...

 

[MD5]

My point was less is more! You acknowledge the difficulty of remembering seven characters, and therefore any reg of five or less characters will be more memorable, regardless of spacing.

 

[MOCAŠ]

My point was less is more! You acknowledge the difficulty of remembering seven characters, and therefore any reg of five or less characters will be more memorable, regardless of spacing.

I acknowledged that point, too. But we'll never be in a position when all cars have plates with no more than five characters, so we need a system that works equally well for all number plates.

 

[Dieselman]

Number plates traditionally had seven digits as that is the highest number of digits humans can readily remember.

 

[Dieselman]

I'd hope the human eye could capably read a wide range of fonts clearly.

Even with correct font/spacing etc how many people can correctly recount a 7 digit sequence? I thought that witness statements were notoriously inaccurate, or at least variable.

20 years ago I was first on the scene at a crash. Within moments there were a number of people around so I left the scene.

A few days later the Police wanted to interview me as a witness. Several people had reported my numberplate and that they thought I was racing the crashed car.
What was interesting was that I was travelling in the opposite direction, so the placement of my car was incorrect, but the registration was correct.

Seems that number-plates do work.

On Tuesday I was run over in a hit and run collision. As I landed on the road I thought "get the number". Both Me and a witness down the road got the number correct.

My personal take is that number plates are there for a valid reason and shouldn't be tampered with for the ease of reading and remembering in an instant. I had about 1 second to get and store this information, having a standard font and spacing helped a lot.

 

[MD5]

Ouch, I hope you're not hurt too badly, DM?

Without going round in circles here, I would say most plates that are mis-spaced are usually done so to spell something, particularly with the newer style registrations, which can only help to make them memorable. As I've said earlier, I don't agree with font altering or bolt enhanced plates, I'm purely talking about spacing, so what will happen if the regulations are relaxed about this? Of course plates have to be immediately recognisable, your misfortune demonstrating exactly why, but I don't think they will be any less memorable with different spacing - a lot of people don't understand the format of registrations as it is.

I hope you are recovering well.

 

[Dieselman]

Ouch, I hope you're not hurt too badly, DM?


I hope you are recovering well.

Thanks.

Just got back from another night in A&E, what seemed to be a bit of a bash at the time has had some pretty worrying consequences. I lost the use and feel of my legs yesterday evening.

 

[MD5]

I hope it's temporary and the driver has been brought bang to rights.

 

[Dieselman]

I hope it's temporary and the driver has been brought bang to rights.

Today's a great day so far, Mrs Dm took one of the old crocks for it's pre-booked MOT and it passed, shortly after I found I'm not going to be para...

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Blimey DM: mend quickly

 

[MD5]

Onwards and upwards, DM.

 

[LTD]

Note to Dieselman.

Please wait until vehicles have stopped before attempting to measure the thickness of paintwork.





Seriously, get well soon and I hope that the authorities catch the person responsible and that you receive suitable compensation.

 

[markjay]

Get well soon Dieselman, and I hope they catch the guy.

Not a doctor, but from experience nerves can go numb temporarily as result of a shock to the body. Hope you'll be able to put it all behind you very soon.