Legal Or Not ?

[Scott_F]

I was filling up with fuel on my way home from work this evening and the guy at the next pump had gone to pay for his.

Rather generously, he'd left his windows open which allowed me a very good view of the Northern Ireland v. Germany game that he was streaming live on his iPhone. It was sitting in a hands-free cradle in the middle of his dash (above the gear leaver) and as he was the only person in the car he'd angled the cradle towards him thus giving him an iPhone-sized TV screen to view as he drove along.

Since the phone was not in his hands and he wasn't making a call would this be legal ? My own view is that it may well be unless there was some sort of incident and the police could prove that his viewing habits had caused him to drive without due care and attention.

 

[Red C220]

Not legal.

There's a whole host of offences that can cover what was going on there.

 

[markjay]

Hands-free operation of mobile phone is permitted for voice calls only.

Use of any data services while driving is strictly prohibited

Hence if you make VoIP call, e.g. via WhatsApp, or Audio FaceTime/Skype, you are technically braking the law, because is is a 'data service'.

Incidentally, if you have a smartphone running SatNav software such as Waze or Google Maps, you are also technically committing an offense, because it's a mobile phone and you are using it for data services. A dedicated SatNav unit (which is not a phone) does not fall foul of the law though, because it is not a 'mobile phone'...

The above are just two more example of how legislation just can't keep up with technology.

 

[bob6600]

Illegal. This is why if your car is factory equipped with TV/DVD etc it will disable the front screen over 5mph (or whatever speed it is).

 

[markjay]

Not legal.

There's a whole host of offenses that can cover what was going on there.

Crrect.... 'Driving without due care or attention' or 'Dangerous driving' are generic offenses that can be applied to many situations, including use of mobile phone or watching streaming video. Indeed before using mobile while driving became a specific offense, this is what mobile phone users where charged with.

The issue with these offenses however, is that if the driver challenges the charges, the police or CPS will need to prove that the specific activity was indeed dangerous, which could means summoning of expert witnesses, and taking the risk that a clever Mr.-Loophole-type solicitors will get the driver off the hook anyway.

In contrast, if the charge is a specific one of 'use of mobile phone while driving', then all the police need prove is that the driver was using his/her mobile phone... which is relatively straightforward and does not requires the opinion of expert witnesses etc.

 

[Deleted member 6183]

Legal.

He wasn't moving or on a road.

 

[markjay]

Legal.

He wasn't moving or on a road.

The assumption is that he was watching the game both before and after pulling in - otherwise why would he set the iPhone to show the game while he was away from the car...

 

[markjay]

Incidentally... I once took a black can ride in London, and the driver was on a FaceTime call to his lady thought the journey...

 

[Deleted member 6183]

The assumption is that he was watching the game both before and after pulling in - otherwise why would he set the iPhone to show the game while he was away from the car...

I assumed that it was a trick question, why would anyone question the legality of watching football while driving?

Either that or a stealthy way of starting a football discussion.

 

[Scott_F]

The assumption is that he was watching the game both before and after pulling in - otherwise why would he set the iPhone to show the game while he was away from the car...

^^ He still had the game on as he pulled off the forecourt although this led him onto the supermarket roadway rather than a public road.

 

[Deleted member 6183]

Incidentally... I once took a black can ride in London, and the driver was on a FaceTime call to his lady thought the journey...

Was she fit and/or naked?

 

[st13phil]

Use of any data services while driving is strictly prohibited though

Not saying you're wrong, but can you reference the relevant act for that?

The reason I ask is that text and email readers are now commonplace on many car infotainment systems (including COMAND) and those texts & emails are received on a Bluetooth connected mobile phone. Also, every satnav (again, including COMAND) that subscribes to the TomTom Live Traffic service is sending anonymised positional, directional and speed info to the host server via a GSM data connection.

 

[Giantvanman]

^ S41d RTA 1988 specifically relates to mobile telephony/hand held devices including PDAs....using a mobile telephone whilst driving which includes being stationary in traffic. For in-car 'infotainment' I believe it would have to be driving without due care and attention.

Edit: "while using a hand-held mobile telephone or other hand-held interactive communication device"

 

[Dryce]

Use of any data services while driving is strictly prohibited

Are you sure?

Anything that I've seen on the subject applies only to holding a device - not hands free use.

(With the added proviso that if your driving is affected by any activity then you can be prosecuted because you are deemed to not be in control of the vehicle).

 

[bob6600]

Use of any data services while driving is strictly prohibited

I would also like to know if this is true. I sometimes use my phone tuned to internet radio and play it via the speakers with the handset in my pocket or on phone holder

 

[st13phil]

Actually, I think the fact that it was a mobile phone is irrelevant. I think it is actually a contravention of Regulation 109 of the Construction & Use reg's which states that:

109.—(1) No person shall drive, or cause or permit to be driven, a motor vehicle on a road, if the driver is in such a position as to be able to see, whether directly or by reflection, a television receiving apparatus or other cinematographic apparatus used to display anything other than information—

(a) about the state of the vehicle or its equipment;
(b) about the location of the vehicle and the road on which it is located;
(c) to assist the driver to see the road adjacent to the vehicle; or
(d) to assist the driver to reach his destination.

 

[st13phil]

I would also like to know if this is true. I sometimes use my phone tuned to internet radio and play it via the speakers with the handset in my pocket or on phone holder

From what I can deduce, it's not an issue as long as the device isn't hand held. See here.

 

[Deleted member 113659]

Is this thread a sneaky attempt to talk about Football?

 

[Dave.tam]

There are numerous offences that could be committed, but the most relevant is as per st13phils post. In a nutshell, you're not allowed to view such images and drive a vehicle at the same time. Passengers are allowed to see, but it becomes an offence if the driver can see.

 

[markjay]

A trafpol officer stopped one of my work colleague for touching his phone... he was using SatNav software and clicked on something while stopped at a traffic light. The officer said that the driver can operate anything that came factory-fitted with the car, but not any device that didn't.... so a factory-fitted touchscreen can be manipulated while driving, a mobile phone or GPS stuck on the windscreen, can not... (if using built-in infotainment system while driving, of course the driver can still be charged with dangerous driving offense, but unlike mobile phones there is no specific offense regarding use of built-in systems)

This seems to be a 'de-facto' rule that police are using to compensate for the widening gap between legislation and technology. The only part of it that makes sense is that it is reasonably simple to enforce. But it is a bit odd because it basically trusts the manufacturers to devise safe systems, but in reality there is no agreed standard for safe use of infotainment systems, and each manufacturer can do what they think is right.