LEXUS 600h rivals S class?

[hawk20]

Here is a link to an interesting video review of the new Lexus 600h
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/videos/featuresvideos/209532/lexus_ls600h.html

 

[BonzoDog]

So, nothing new there then.
I always thought that the stylists of the Lexus had the good idea to copy the bodywork of the S Class but did it with their eyes closed.

 

[hawk20]

For an interesting review of the Lexus try: -
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/15/au...ws/15AUTO.html

It has some great lines, like:

Behind its green Teflon shield, the Lexus proved to be just another overstuffed sedan that can barely top 20 miles a gallon — less, if you actually tap into all that power. If that’s saving the planet, Jor-El had better prepare the escape pod before it’s too late


COMPULSORY READING for all MOds and ADMINISTRATORS who have to control abuse and anyone like Television who has suffered abuse on a forum, have a look at this thread: -
http://forum.mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=189719

to see just how incredibly rude our North American cousins can let it get if someone dares to say that a Lexus is better than a Mercedes-Benz! By about page 5 temperatures are close to boiling.

 

[jaymanek]

dull and lifeless just like the blokes review!

 

[C43AMG]

dull and lifeless just like the blokes review!

Yep.

 

[mb240]

The LS lexus and GS always seem to trail whatever MB do with the S-Class, which basically (in my mind anyway) defines what other cars are going to put in their own cars over the following 5-10 years. The lights, alloys all seem to take design cues from Stuttgart.

 

[fuzzer]

I quite liked the LS460 i had a few weeks back. But im sure the S class is the better car.

 

[hawk20]

To my mind the biggest thing holding back the Lexus brand in the UK is the lack of a diesel for their bigger cars and the 4x4.

I've driven the hybrid 4x4 but was alarmed to find they only guarantee the electric motors for a maximum of 60k miles. Could be very costly. Hurts me to praise 'another' make but I thought the X5 was more comfortable and far better to drive. The Lexus 4x4 could do with more legroom in the front.

 

[DarrinD]

Thing about the Lexus is that pretty much all the toys are standard.

 

[Mactech]

I quite liked the LS460 i had a few weeks back. But im sure the S class is the better car.

Yep! me too.. but now I know the S is a better car. Spent two days in the E class this week and I still can't get over how much better the S is when I get back in to it. I have owned Lexus in the past, and maybe after only 3 months I'm still in a the honeymoon period with the new S, but I still puts a big smile on my face evert time I drive it. It's that good!

 

[hawk20]

Yep! me too.. but now I know the S is a better car. Spent two days in the E class this week and I still can't get over how much better the S is when I get back in to it. I have owned Lexus in the past, and maybe after only 3 months I'm still in a the honeymoon period with the new S, but I still puts a big smile on my face evert time I drive it. It's that good!

The trouble is nobody can really believe you. I've had loads of cars over the years including many E's, two C's, an ML, a B class, Hondas, Rovers, Fords, and so on. And having done 30-40k miles per year most of my life you really would think I had had enough. But the S class has been a revelation. The feel, the comfort, the ride, the effortless performance, everything about it is just so good. Months and months after I bought it, I was still waking and looking forward to going for a drive. Just for the hell of it. And it is still there. Now done 27,000 miles from new and 21k of those are mine from April 2006. Shameful. All private miles. All enjoyed.

 

[fuzzer]

The trouble is nobody can really believe you. I've had loads of cars over the years including many E's, two C's, an ML, a B class, Hondas, Rovers, Fords, and so on. And having done 30-40k miles per year most of my life you really would think I had had enough. But the S class has been a revelation. The feel, the comfort, the ride, the effortless performance, everything about it is just so good. Months and months after I bought it, I was still waking and looking forward to going for a drive. Just for the hell of it. And it is still there. Now done 27,000 miles from new and 21k of those are mine from April 2006. Shameful. All private miles. All enjoyed.

Id be interested on your thoughts with the LS460 compared to the W220

 

[hawk20]

Id be interested on your thoughts with the LS460 compared to the W220

Well, I have driven the RX400h but not the LS460. I have driven the LS when it was 430 I think and unlike most Merc owners I rather liked it. Not just round the block but had it a week or so. It has a real limo feel, which I like. Smooth, effortless, quiet, supremely comfortable - all wonderful attributes when you want to do long distances and arrive feeling good.

The 220 is extraordinary in that it drives and feels much smaller than it is. Great ride and comfort, of course, but much more a driver's car. Both the Lexus cars I've driven had super-light steering with really hardly any feel. Very little castor return. Virtually stays where you aim it. The S has just a nice amount of feel and when turning a corner, if you let go, it comes back to straight ahead on its own -as all good cars should I think. It is more like a BMW than it is like a Lexus in terms of steering.

Recently, I have allowed myself to be persuaded to borrow the new S class for a week (having sworn I wouldn't because that is how I ended up with an S instead of my usual E in the first place. And I REALLY don't want the cost of changing again). It is very similar to the 220 series S class and very different as well. It is more like the Lexus to drive -to my surprise. The steering is feather light. Wife loves it. I like more feel.

The engine is amazing. Diesel "320cdi" which is V6 as you know rather than the straight six I know and love. But boy is it quiet, refined, smooth, the nearest thing to impossible to tell from a petrol I have ever driven or listened to. Even at rest when outside the car it is quiet. And EVEN WITH THE BONNET OPEN. I had to open it as I couldn't believe how quiet it was.

BUT, BUT, I like hearing the straight six clear its throat when I put my toe down. And I firmly believe powerful diesels don't need 7 speed boxes. It pulls 40mph per thousand revs in top. So a lot of the time it is not in top!

Why I don't know, the 220 gives a real thump in the back when you give it the boot. The 221 effortlessly and smoothly sweeps forward. Figures say just as fast but the 220 feels better. So far. May change my mind. Love them both. Could live with either. But the 220 just has it on feel for me.

I may try and borrow a 460 as I love trying different cars. I'm dying to try the new ML and the X5 believe it or not.

 

[fuzzer]

Ive driven an Ls460 and an LS430 and the 460 is really good compared with the 430. Totally different car.

I know what you mean about the RX and thats just blah usual Japanese , but they seem to have pushed the boat out with the 460. Reviews ive read have put the S class ahead on image and ride quality witht he 460 being quite crashy over complex series of bumps that arent noticable in the W221.

Mark Levinson sound system is something else in the 460 tho Still to hear the B&O system in the A8 too.

 

[hawk20]

Ive driven an Ls460 and an LS430 and the 460 is really good compared with the 430. Totally different car.

I know what you mean about the RX and thats just blah usual Japanese , but they seem to have pushed the boat out with the 460. Reviews ive read have put the S class ahead on image and ride quality witht he 460 being quite crashy over complex series of bumps that arent noticable in the W221.

Mark Levinson sound system is something else in the 460 tho Still to hear the B&O system in the A8 too.

The problem is, IMO, that 60% of S class sales are 320cdi's in Britain. And there is not yet a big diesel Lexus. I would not want a gas guzzler now partly for fear of what the chancellor will do and partly because depreciation on big petrols is now fearsome.

Oddly, the main Lexus dealer I went to said there are two things the Japanese can't make well: diesel engines and alloy wheels. He said the alloys corrode in UK in winter and the diesel in the 220 (is it called that) is crap. And he is the dealer! I could not believe my ears. He also preferred the petrol models to the hybrid as, he said, " not one customer has been able to get anywhere near the claimed fuel consumption figures."

 

[Dieselman]

Oddly, the main Lexus dealer I went to said there are two things the Japanese can't make well: diesel engines and alloy wheels. He said the alloys corrode in UK in winter and the diesel in the 220 (is it called that) is crap. And he is the dealer! I could not believe my ears. He also preferred the petrol models to the hybrid as, he said, " not one customer has been able to get anywhere near the claimed fuel consumption figures."

This can't have been a Salesman...he was telling the truth..

 

[fuzzer]

The problem is, IMO, that 60% of S class sales are 320cdi's in Britain. And there is not yet a big diesel Lexus. I would not want a gas guzzler now partly for fear of what the chancellor will do and partly because depreciation on big petrols is now fearsome.

Oddly, the main Lexus dealer I went to said there are two things the Japanese can't make well: diesel engines and alloy wheels. He said the alloys corrode in UK in winter and the diesel in the 220 (is it called that) is crap. And he is the dealer! I could not believe my ears. He also preferred the petrol models to the hybrid as, he said, " not one customer has been able to get anywhere near the claimed fuel consumption figures."

I know what you mean , but the engine in the 460 is pretty good. Made me smile when i planted my foot into the floor. But in this day and age not having a diesel is shooting yourself in the foot.

In regards to the hybrid , the MPG isnt that great ... But the advantage comes in the form of the instant power with 0 lag. I mean you hit the pedal and it just goes. If it gets you into the congestion zone for nothing then maybe the MPG is worth it. GS400 is pretty good engine wise , the silent from standstill is really weird

 

[hawk20]

I know what you mean , but the engine in the 460 is pretty good. Made me smile when i planted my foot into the floor. But in this day and age not having a diesel is shooting yourself in the foot.

In regards to the hybrid , the MPG isnt that great ... But the advantage comes in the form of the instant power with 0 lag. I mean you hit the pedal and it just goes. If it gets you into the congestion zone for nothing then maybe the MPG is worth it. GS400 is pretty good engine wise , the silent from standstill is really weird

Agree with all that. The power on the RX400h was similarly good. BUT while they are only prepared to guarantee all the electrical gubbins and twin electric motors for 60k miles -which shows very little confidence and which will cost a packet to replace- I show no confidence in wanting to buy one. I really think people are taking a serious risk in buying a new technology with so poor a guarantee. And really it is a bit of a nonsense to use three motors (two electric and one petrol) and all the battery stuff and complex computer technology to link them all together for what -less fuel economy than your diesel X5 (or probably than the ML in the real world). I think better answers will come and pretty soon.

 

[Mactech]

You can't fault the Lexus dealers on honesty! Or indeed service. During a gentle 100 miles in a LS460 I managed 35mpg which I thought was quite remarkable for a 400bhp petrol limo. I could cope with the fuel costs, but what put me off was the lack of instant accessiblility to all that go. The 8(!) speed box was magically smooth in normal use but when asked to overtake quickly became very confused and took such a long time to select the right gear, the the chance to overtake had gone! I could have held the right gear manually, but that hardly seems in keeping with this type of car. Not when the diesel S Class responds so well to just the flex of a toe and averages over 40 mpg.....

 

[kikkthecat]

As a favour to a friend (actually I'm getting paid ) I have to pick up one of six brand new LS600h's tomorrow for a job I've been asked to do. They dont go on sale officially until the 1st of October and six in convoy will certainly be unusual.
I should have a couple of hours with it all to myself on the return journey so I'll see what exactly is supposed to make it so special. Everything I've seen about it so far tells me it's not a drivers car but is all about the passengers.