Loft Conversion - Sent round a bunch of amateurs!

[219]

As suggested above, get rid of that pair asap , before you require the services of Dominic Littlewood & Melinda Messenger .

I was about to suggest that too , if it wasn't for the serious risk to your property , it might be entertaining to get the TV crew in to capture them at work .

Did you catch the names of the two 'workers' , wasn't Stan and Ollie by any chance ?

More seriously , I'd contact the 'reputable' company who have subcontracted this lot and complain to them , focussing primarily on H&S but also on competency and workmanship .

 

[Mike Walker]

Loft conversion- sent round a bunch of amateurs!

Wouldn't be too concerned about the CDM Regs, but more the Health & Safety Act at Work. Inform the main contact to remove these two monkeys and get proper experienced people in otherwise you'll have to inform the Health and Safety Executive ( type in Google, follow the link and report them).

Not sure how much of the CDM 2015 covers domestic work?

Agree but my understanding is that the recent update to CDM regulations, takes account of EU legislation and includes domestic works more than ever before.
Better to check IMHO.

 

[ash59fifty-uk]

CDM regs apply to all work including domestic works, I'd get in touch with the principle contractor about the concerns about the two workers. They seem iffy to me. It wouldn't hurt to stop the work till more suitable contractors are sourced

 

[bob6600]

Also... what proportion - if any - of the agreed cost have you already paid?

^^ This was also going to be my question...I hope your initial outlay hasn't been a big one

 

[GDAWG10]

^^ This was also going to be my question...I hope your initial outlay hasn't been a big one

Nope, just a deposit at the moment.

Main guy is coming round on Monday, so will see if he has any new workers or stays with them. Dad called him, said he would fix next-doors damage.

 

[John Jones Jr]

I hope your initial outlay hasn't been a big one

You need to act wisely in this situation as at present the only genuine grievance you currently have is damage to the neighbour's property - which could be very easily rectified by a the contractor.

 

[WG M-B]

Ahhhh builders...
And you lot worry about mechanics

 

[WG M-B]

I literally follow the buggers round, and at the end of every day phone for any reason be it big or small to get answers!!!!
they can hide poor workmanship more than any other trade!

 

[Meldrew2]

You need to act wisely in this situation as at present the only genuine grievance you currently have is damage to the neighbour's property - which could be very easily rectified by a the contractor.

And a very real concern about H&S … … … maybe a little harder to rectify.

Where's the Risk Assessments, method statements etc - and those for the subcontractor (if that is what they are) or the training records (if they are staff) ?

 

[John Jones Jr]

And a very real concern about H&S … … … maybe a little harder to rectify.

Accidents happen. And so far that's the only complaint of substance the client has as this point. Thus, if I was the client I'd handle the situation carefully assuming an initial installment has been already paid.

 

[Satch]

This sounds very familiar.

Guy I work with is in the middle of a dormer extension and contracted with a local builder in North London. Good reputation and he is very busy so subbed it out, sadly to somebody who was essentially a liar.

Agreement was for experienced tradesmen.

What turned up were largely unsupervised Albanians who were labourers and quickly proved themselves useless to the point of being positively dangerous.

Main contractor took one look, kicked them off site and has remediated the utter rubbish work they had done, taking a big hit in the process because that amongst a host of misery that involved replacing a purpose built staircase they had butchered, removing and reinstalling a large structural steel that was way off level and refitting Juliet balcony door frame in a way that meant it might survive the first windy day.

 

[GDAWG10]

Anyone know if the guys working on a loft conversion need to have certain qualifications, certifications, membership etc?

Just thinking might be good to say to the boss of the company that we only want qualified builders working if that makes sense?

 

[Simon_M]

As suggested above, get rid of that pair asap , before you require the services of Dominic Littlewood & Melinda Messenger .

I always require the services of Melinda Messenger

 

[ShinyF1]

Anyone know if the guys working on a loft conversion need to have certain qualifications, certifications, membership etc? Just thinking might be good to say to the boss of the company that we only want qualified builders working if that makes sense?

Basically no - in the construction industry we generally only see safety orientated 'qualifications'. You rely on the quality of the supervision to know as soon as someone picks up a tool whether they are qualified or not and act accordingly. All projects must be adequately supervised - that is the key.

I'm in the business (at the large project end of the industry) and the hardest thing for domestic building work is finding someone competent. At work we have a whole raft of quality control process and procedure to ensure all is right. It is very rare to find that attention to detail at the smaller end of the market, but with the right competent builder it will just be done right, and normally at a premium. Sadly our industry is tainted by bodgers. People do make mistakes, but good people acknowledge them and go out of their way to ensure they are resolved.

My neighbour has just finished a single storey extension and loft conversion with his second builder. In the end a very successful job despite his original builder just walking away leaving carnage and having been overpaid. The guys that finished it were excellent - they thought about what they were building and planned it properly - safe, considerate, efficient, clean. The good guys came on tested references - it is a state of mind and their objective was to satisfy their customer, who has in turn recommended them to others. You must get references and validate them for any builder.

Unfortunately I was not so clever and am doing my own single storey extension with the wrong builder, despite a recommendation from my structural engineer. My project has a few architectural features that require very close attention to detail and I now know that my builder doesn't do attention to detail very well, so I am there every day and effectively running it myself around my day job. I'm probably the worst client in the world because I want to ensure everything under the surface that you can't see is done properly too. I'm sure many domestic builders don't have to contend with that. I suspect that an ordinary customer with no technical knowledge would think they were great, but for me it's been a difficult journey.

Good luck with the loft conversion - i hope it works out.

 

[Satch]

I'm probably the worst client in the world

Sorry that title is taken by my in brother and sister in law. Both Civil Engineers, been in the game for 25+ years and between them got their boots dirty on everything from housing estates to huge civil projects.

Had a real problem finding a builder for a house renovation project who did not suddenly lose interest when they worked that out.

Eventually were steered by their architect in the direction of a semi retired guy who said he would do it, could source skilled people and was happy to work to an exacting spec. and detailing but......would only work 3 days per week.

In the end they accepted and yes it dragged on a bit but the result is splendid.

 

[paneraiseeker]

As suggested above, get rid of that pair asap , before you require the services of Dominic Littlewood & Melinda Messenger .

Having the little bald Essex wide boy turn up is enough to get things sorted out.

 

[Piff]

Very little need for builders to have any qualifications.
Some are affilliated to trade organisations (FMB, etc) but I wouldn't put too much faith in this as it's easy to fake a letter head, and often memberships are paid for rather than earned.
Word of mouth always better at this level - take recommendations & follow them through.
I don't advertise & get sufficient work to keep me busy through repeat business, recommendations & spec building.

 

[Rob77]

Anyone know if the guys working on a loft conversion need to have certain qualifications, certifications, membership etc?

Just thinking might be good to say to the boss of the company that we only want qualified builders working if that makes sense?

The "builder" with whom you are in contract should be competent to do the work.

I'm not aware that's is question, is it?

I don't know what your contract says but I would expect the builder to employ time served tradesmen.

That is, I wouldn't expect the builder to send round a window cleaner to do the work of a joiner.

If you doubt the competence of the individuals or the level of supervision on the job then you should express those doubts to the builder and give examples to prove your point.

With any dispute, look at what is in the contract.

 

[GDAWG10]

Dad's persisting with them at the moment due to the reassurances of the managing director who is currently finishing up another local job and has said he will be over soon.

At the moment, day 3, and it's just one guy up there taking off the tiles and insulation. They fixed neighbours titles yesterday. No steel beams yet or even a skip.

Another small run in with the neighbours tonight. He knocked on the door to say he had been up to his loft (to check everything was OK on his end), and there was a hole in the wall, about the size of two footballs, at the front of his property on the adjoining wall.

Guessing this is for the steel beams? Should he have gone right through their wall? With quite concerned (fussy) neighbours a bit of communication with what he was doing would have helped!

 

[cazyp]

Dad's persisting with them at the moment due to the reassurances of the managing director who is currently finishing up another local job and has said he will be over soon.

At the moment, day 3, and it's just one guy up there taking off the tiles and insulation. They fixed neighbours titles yesterday. No steel beams yet or even a skip.

Another small run in with the neighbours tonight. He knocked on the door to say he had been up to his loft (to check everything was OK on his end), and there was a hole in the wall, about the size of two footballs, at the front of his property on the adjoining wall.

Guessing this is for the steel beams? Should he have gone right through their wall? With quite concerned (fussy) neighbours a bit of communication with what he was doing would have helped!

Lol lets just hope you sorted the party wall agreement before they started..