Loft Conversion - Sent round a bunch of amateurs!

[GDAWG10]

This is the section under electrics in the contract...

Underneath all the info about the type of sockets, lights they will use, which it says are R.C.D protected, it states " All electrical installations carried out will be tested and certified to part p of the building code and a certificate issued to you on completion"

 

[Little Lofty]

Your Dad is paying for building control regardless if its from the council or an approved inspector, so the inspector should take any concerns more seriously. He's correct that he shouldn't have to inspect a Part P electricians work but if there are obvious variations from the regs then he needs to check it out. At the very least get a second opinion from a different electrician.

 

[Alf Barnet]

New work needs a Part P. When you have the Part P certificate, pay up.

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_AD_P_2013.pdf

 

[Mike Walker]

^^ Quite! If I was The Client on the Project I would expect certain documentation from various individuals prior to settling their accounts. If you do not receive what you are entitled to then do not pay until you do.

Similarly if Building Control do not do what is required under The Building Regulations same applies.

At some point your Father will need relevant documentation. Without it any Surveyor will have a field day, or should do.

Good luck.

 

[ShinyF1]

I've got rid of my builders in the end. It ended up being a game of 'see if he can spot what we've done wrong', which although I'm reasonably competent to play that game, is time consuming and stressful and not productive.

In the end it came down to money - they were asking for more money to cover their additional costs to put right their mistakes . For some reason when I said no they didn't want to carry on. I was happy to pay for extra work that I had asked for, but not the cost of putting things right. Perhaps they thought they had me over a barrel?

I now have a small crew of skilled tradesmen working on day rates who I trust. I have a bit of diligence to get the project over the line and obtain certification etc, but encouragingly having had all wiring/plumbing and gas works tested, they all seem to pass muster. Phew! Just co-ordination and finishes to sort out.

I am happy to do construction as a day job, but do not want to do any more work at home. I thought I had most bases covered, but I made the mistake of thinking that detailed dimensioned drawings, a detailed scope of works and 'worst case' defined where there was doubt would serve some purpose. My builders only referred to these documents when I had to show them why I thought something was built wrong. Idiots!

Moving on and trying to move back in within a few weeks. Fingers crossed

 

[Little Lofty]

It sounds as if a Part P certificate has been issued, however, as the electrician who issued it didn't to the wiring it doesn't prove the wiring is correct. The test results may have come back ok but he has no way of knowing if the wiring is correct under the plaster, which seems to be the issue here. IMO he shouldn't have signed off the work knowing that cable is unprotected. Obviously it's difficult to get a full picture sitting here with my iPad, but it definitely looks suspect to me.

 

[GDAWG10]

It sounds as if a Part P certificate has been issued, however, as the electrician who issued it didn't to the wiring it doesn't prove the wiring is correct. The test results may have come back ok but he has no way of knowing if the wiring is correct under the plaster, which seems to be the issue here. IMO he shouldn't have signed off the work knowing that cable is unprotected. Obviously it's difficult to get a full picture sitting here with my iPad, but it definitely looks suspect to me.

Correct, however Part P hasn't been issued yet.

You are right, he came round to sign it off, connected some things into the fuse box, checked the fire/smoke alarms and then realised only the loft lights were working, and the plug sockets weren't. It was at this stage he had to find the fault and located it in the loft stair wall...and did the repair as in the picture. Sat in his van to fill out the paper-work but certificate not come through yet, however you are right, all the cables are just in the wall but not protected by anything, apart from the "repair" that looks like it has some sort of box/and tape around in.

 

[Mike Walker]

"I'm out" as they say on Dragons Den. Unbelievable.

 

[John]

Just get rid of them,and find another company,at this time of the year that will be no problem most people want loft conversions started in the summer not October

Have a look at the date of post #1!

 

[GDAWG10]

Why would they need to take pictures for certificate purposes?

The builder took pictures of the fuse box to send to the electrician before he came, I assume to know what he was working with or going to be working with on arrival. Builder just came round to tighten up the heating/replace a faulty smoke alarm and said he will be back because "he needs to take pictures for the electrical certificate"?

 

[GDAWG10]

Hi all,

Final inspector from building control here. First thing he said was "Where is the wall to protect the downstairs staircase?"

Not on the plans, this guy never said anything on other inspections, builder never said anything...thinks fire alarms/smoke alarms in every room are OK. Architect says he made a mistake.

Building control guy very strict on this, never mentioned it before. Said a wall needs to be put up, whether the homeowner knocks it down is their risk, said other option is an expensive fire curtain.

Planning officer said it's his mistake but building officer should have picked it up earlier, building officer not budging on his stance, just working to regulations, builder got the hump arguing with inspector.

Anyone got any advice on this situation?

There are interlinked smoke/firm alarms in every room, fire doors in lofts....builder seems to think this is usually enough but he uses a different building control company. This guy is from a different company who was recommended by the guy originally was going to do the loft but took too long to give us a start date and kept putting it off.

Building control guy now saying he will be happy with a wall put up...just plasterboard and a door, and the plans need to be changed, and he will sign it off. Again, he states it's up to homeowner whether they knock it down.

 

[GDAWG10]

How does this affect insurance if the wall is put up, removed and then there is an issue?

Plans were done, given to private building control guy, sent to council and approved, now there is an issue.

If the rules/legislation are open to interpretation, what if another building control officer (had we used a different one) was to sign it off if he's happy with the sprinkler/fire door system and there is no wall? Does it matter insurance wise if it's signed off with or without a wall?

That's what I don't get, that another building officer may have signed it off, but I am wondering if the certificate/final certificate/approval is given and it's stated whether there is a protected staircase/wall?

 

[Meldrew2]

I have attached two pictures of the repair below....

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That's a real cowboy job. I'm surprised the electrician didn't go to sit on his horse to do the paperwork. It needs putting right NOW or you are risking failure and even fire in the future.

...Cables in walls should be run either vertically or horizontally from sockets/switches or within 150mm max from a corner/ceiling...

Is it possible they had to do it that way due to the way the house was wired? Obviously not vertical or horizontally from a socket but is it possible they had to take a detour for a reason?

The rule is for UNPROTECTED cables. If the cables are run inside earthed steel conduit they can be put outside "permitted areas". There is also a steel sheathed cable that would satisfy the regulations. - "Steel Mesh Sheathed (SY) cable" would not protect the cable from penetration damage by a screw or nail, but it would ensure that the errant screw or nail would be earthed prior to contacting a live conductor to prevent electric shock. That is the solution when cables have to follow awkward routes. Any decent qualified electrician would know that. A cowboy wouldn't know or care.

Junctions must be accessible for inspection. There is (certainly was) an exception for crimped or soldered joints.

The again, hearing about the new issue makes the wiring pale into insignificance - at least until the junction overheats and starts a fire.

 

[ash59fifty-uk]

In the certificate it's like an MOT they'll note advisories, however if this final dude won't pass it without the wall and another does, and ten years down the line something happens and somebody is injured or whatever, then insurance companies will look back at this

(we all know what insurance is like, they'll try anything not to pay out)

What sort of staircase is in this location? Hard to picture it without seeing the plan

 

[Little Lofty]

Can I be the first to say we told you so. Everyone who offered advise at the start of this thread said get rid of them, it will end in tears etc.
Anyway to the current problem, is the downstairs open plan? If it is then the building inspector is correct. The house needs a protected route all the way up to the loft, the only alternative is a sprinkler system. Your builder and architect should have known this, it's really basic stuff. I lost a few jobs because of this, as I would point out to the homeowner they would have to lose the open plan if they wanted to convert the loft. As I said at the start, loft conversions are really quite simple, it's not rocket science. I'm amazed so many get it so wrong