London Bus Drivers - Dangerous.

[219]

if you are caught in a crash next to a bus pulling out of a bus stop you will be automatically at fault.

Erm , no : buses are subject to the same set of rules as all other road users .

There may be little 'please give way to this bus' stickers , and a 'rule' which really is only ADVICE in the Highway Code , but legally these count for little .

The onus is still on bus drivers or any other driver to ensure that it is safe to move off before doing so . However , I agree there are good and bad bus drivers , as with all other classes of road user , so caution is the watchword .

The use of trafficators has little bearing on the matter either : completely unnecessary if no deviation in course is required to pass the bus ( eg if it is in a bus layby and you continue straight past ) , of dubious use to following drivers as an early course makes it obvious what you are doing , and inappropriate for oncoming traffic to which you would have to give way and wait for to pass first if insufficient room to pass .

The only 'signal' appropriate when passing a bus is a horn warning for the benefit of disembarked passengers who might be about to step out from behind the front end of the bus into your path ( but consider the possibility of a deaf passenger or a youngster with an iPod who may not hear you ) ; a headlamp flash , whilst technically correct to advise the driver of your presence , will often be misinterpreted as a 'please pull out in front of me' gesture and so would be dangerous .

At the same time , the above is not a licence to barge on regardless - a little courtesy and common sense goes a long way , as does good observation : when approaching a bus , if you can see that all the passengers have got on you can anticipate the bus will be moving off ; similarly , if when following a bus you see passengers getting up , you can anticipate the bus is going to stop and back off so you don;t get stuck behind it .

 

[neilrr]

There are rules & rules, & regardless of what the Highway Code states, the particular rule - local, unwritten, call it what you like - that applies to London buses is that if you signal 99% of the time they'll wait & let you go past & if you don't signal 99% of the time they'll pull out, even if you are literally on top of them.

 

[219]

Since not everyone driving in London on any given day is FROM London and neither aware of their local 'unwritten rules' nor telepathic , it is time this practice was stamped out then .

A few sackings would do the trick , word spreads quickly .

 

[neilrr]

Without wishing to get into a row with you, the advice you gave in post 41 will likely result in at least an argument with a bus driver & possibly a near miss or collision. As I said in post 42, if you signal 99% of the time they'll wait & let you go past & if you don't signal 99% of the time they'll pull out. Do it your way & you'll probably end up with a knock for knock (at best!) accident. They interpret 'the bus has priority' literally.

I won't give advice to people about the protocol or accepted method of passing sheep on a country road because I haven't been dealing with that on a regular basis for years & years. I do have considerable experience & local knowledge dealing with London buses without incident for years & years.

 

[reflexboy]

Ahhhhh-Bus drivers, black cab drivers, and tatty things that pass MOTs and are called taxis(how?).....all as bad as each other. The last time a bus driver did the obligatory pulling out on me whilst I was level with him, I just stopped-he punched the side of my work van (no it wasn't white at the time) , I got out as he was insisting in a verbally abusive manner that I didn't take note of the 'Please let the bus go first' sticker on the back of his bus. I told him that was all very well, and I'm more than happy to let the bus go first, if I am given more than a nano second to apply my brakes in a safe manner and allow him to continue with his intended manoeuvre and that the Highway Code was obviously omitted when he took his test. It was a no win situation where I was obviously right (even if I wasn't...I WAS) and he THOUGHT he was right, so after calling him a fat person whom slides his hand rigorously up and down his body part that only men have I thought the best cause of action was to retie both of my shoe laces in front of his bus, slowly, whilst enjoying a recital of poetic swearing on his part.

 

[219]

Neil , I have no wish to get into an argument either .

While I don't dispute that what you say may well be common practice in London , and even well known to locals , it still does not change the LEGAL position I outlined above .

My point is that local practices will not be known to 'out of towners' and , for that reason , any aggressive driving on the part of bus drivers should be stamped out .

The only other place I am aware of where this is prevalent is Edinburgh - the common factor with London being that they also had to endure 'professor' David Begg until he was kicked out of both cities ( now , I understand , inflicting his wacky transport policies on the unfortunate people of Aberdeen ? ) .

I did advocate the use of common sense and caution in my original post and have to say that I have driven in London on numerous occasions in recent years without incident .

 

[neilrr]

Derek,

I wholeheartedly agree that aggressive bus driving should be stamped out but don't hold out much hope. London is an overcrowded nightmare to drive in (& live in IMHO) & pushy, aggressive, rude, inconsiderate driving is commonplace, not just amongst bus drivers.

I think our disagreement is due to differing knowledge of local conditions.

Very nearly all of London was built before before buses & cars came into common use. Garages & even driveways are rare & nearly everybody parks in the street. Victorian residential roads designed with lots of pedestrians, children using them as play areas & an occasional horse & cart in mind are now parked up nose to tail on both sides where bus stops are a roughly 15-20 metre clear space amongst the parked cars. Until you get out in the suburbs, maybe 10-12 miles from C. London there are very, very few bus stops that incorporate a lay bye. There just isn't the space & nearly all buses stop at the side of the road, not off it in a lay bye.

In these situations where 98% of the time the bus is at least partially blocking the road the use of indicators is essential as it gives the bus driver fair warning you are coming by & drops the cloak of invisibility cars seem to have for bus drivers. Where there is a proper off road lay bye normal rules on pulling out into traffic apply & are largely obeyed by drivers of cars & buses alike. It's only at the bus stop at the side of the road that one encounters the kamikaze 'pull out without a care' bus driver. TBH, I do have some sympathy for them. Few motorists want to be stuck behind a bus & rarely let them out. The bus driver's actions are born of necessity.

I've noticed a recent-ish trend where it is now the practice of some bus drivers to deliberately pull up & park several feet away from the kerb to block the road & traffic behind them so they can pull away from the bus stop unimpeded. While annoying I guess it does do away with the need to make a decision on anybody's part.