Looking at a W221 S500L ('56 plate) with EML some advice

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greekCL

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Hello guys,

I am looking to get an S500L '56 it has 127k miles and it is at an auction.
I will ask tomorrow if I can see the car prior to the auction.

It has an EML light on, but all in all it looks in a great condition.
I have checked online on various sources and apparently the models with the problematic timing chain guides and tensioners are engines with serial number prior to 2739..30 088611.
Since the car I am looking at is way after that engine serial number, I would assume it is not affected by the the timing chain guide wheel (idler) the car I am looking at has engine number 2739..30 114821, so is it safe to assume it does not fall under that problem?

I am so tempted as the car has all the extras I would be looking for...

Cheers
Vasilis.
 
Although the M273 idler gears were updated with the hardened versions by engine no 088611, it wasn't until engine no 193592 that the camshaft adjustment solenoids were replaced by the improved version (A272 051 01 77), if the previous versions (A272 051 00 77) are still present, they can fail and throw codes which set the EML on.

My M272 has had 3 (of the 4) replaced over the past 5 years. They are easy to change and the new ones only cost £20-£25 each from dealers.

Note the MB bulletin which describes the balance shaft/idler gears issue also states a stretched timing chain will display similar symptoms.

I would want to read the DTC codes before bidding and wouldn't proceed if auctioneer forbade that. (Then, I'm not much of a gambler though.)

My other thought is that if it's only a couple of hundred pound fix, why did the PO put it in an auction with the EML showing.
 
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Although the M273 idler gears were updated with the hardened versions by engine no 088611, it wasn't until engine no 193592 that the camshaft adjustment solenoids were replaced by the improved version (A272 051 01 77), if the previous versions (A272 051 00 77) are still present, they can fail and throw codes which set the EML on.

My M272 has had 3 (of the 4) replaced over the past 5 years. They are easy to change and the new ones only cost £20-£25 each from dealers.

Note the MB bulletin which describes the balance shaft/idler gears issue also states a stretched timing chain will display similar symptoms.

I would want to read the DTC codes before bidding and wouldn't proceed if auctioneer forbade that. (Then, I'm not much of a gambler though.)

My other thought is that if it's only a couple of hundred pound fix, why did the PO put it in an auction with the EML showing.

This. There's an expensive known fault with the engine that can cause an EML, and there's an EML. How lucky do you feel?
 
Although the M273 idler gears were updated with the hardened versions by engine no 088611, it wasn't until engine no 193592 that the camshaft adjustment solenoids were replaced by the improved version (A272 051 01 77), if the previous versions (A272 051 00 77) are still present, they can fail and throw codes which set the EML on.

My M272 has had 3 (of the 4) replaced over the past 5 years. They are easy to change and the new ones only cost £20-£25 each from dealers.

Note the MB bulletin which describes the balance shaft/idler gears issue also states a stretched timing chain will display similar symptoms.

I would want to read the DTC codes before bidding and wouldn't proceed if auctioneer forbade that. (Then, I'm not much of a gambler though.)

My other thought is that if it's only a couple of hundred pound fix, why did the PO put it in an auction with the EML showing.

Thank you good to know. I have tried to look for camshaft adjustment solenoids for the 273 but the results keep coming for the 272.
Are these as easy to replace on the 273 engine? how many are there?
 
This. There's an expensive known fault with the engine that can cause an EML, and there's an EML. How lucky do you feel?

I have to say I do prefer buying cars with a "known" fault at the point of sale... so then I can repair them my self properly.
However... if I buy a car at normal price and then I found a masked up hidden fault, and I have to spend more money on top... it would make it even more annoying :(

What is the expensive known fault? do you refer to the camshaft adjustment solenoids?
 
No, the stretched camchain is the expensive repair. If you could be sure the problem was solenoids, and only solenoids, the car could be a bargain. If not, well, I repeat, how lucky do you feel?
 
No, the stretched camchain is the expensive repair. If you could be sure the problem was solenoids, and only solenoids, the car could be a bargain. If not, well, I repeat, how lucky do you feel?

lol don't know, shall see how I get on today, luck hasn't been on my side this month lol.

If they let me see the car then I will take it from there, I will get my scanner and check it.
If they don't let me see the car then I am not willing to risk it.
 
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But what is the right price?

All the above seems sensible and reasonable.

But the missing data is the price range. (I don't need to know but) IMHO, I think you need to come up with what you reckon is a reasonable price for that car, with that mileage and spec, and compare it to the price you're expecting to pay for that car with the EML on, and these possible outcomes.

If it's a 1,000 difference, then maybe, maybe not.
If it's 2,000 difference, more likely,
if it's 3,000 difference it's probably worth that kind of risk...
(But it's for you to work out what the numbers mean for you)


But don't pay the same price for a car with the EML on as you would for a car without the EML on. (I know that sounds stupid, but I certainly know people who've paid "normal" money for a car with a known fault.)
 
All the above seems sensible and reasonable.

But the missing data is the price range. (I don't need to know but) IMHO, I think you need to come up with what you reckon is a reasonable price for that car, with that mileage and spec, and compare it to the price you're expecting to pay for that car with the EML on, and these possible outcomes.

If it's a 1,000 difference, then maybe, maybe not.
If it's 2,000 difference, more likely,
if it's 3,000 difference it's probably worth that kind of risk...
(But it's for you to work out what the numbers mean for you)


But don't pay the same price for a car with the EML on as you would for a car without the EML on. (I know that sounds stupid, but I certainly know people who've paid "normal" money for a car with a known fault.)

it might be as cheap as £5k ... but not sure, it all depends as it is an auction.
 
Thank you good to know. I have tried to look for camshaft adjustment solenoids for the 273 but the results keep coming for the 272.
Are these as easy to replace on the 273 engine? how many are there?

They are the same parts on the M272 and M273 engines and have a M272 part number. (The M272 and M273 are the same engine design with the V6 having timing chain driven balance shafts and the V8 just idler gears as it is naturally balanced.)

There are 4 of them, one for each camshaft, each one is mounted on the outside of the cam covers by 3 E8 bolts at the top front of the engine. They are easily accessible by just removing the front plastic engine cover.

On that video you referenced, you can see the 2 right bank solenoids at 1 min 23 secs. They are the black circular objects.
 
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But that wasn't quite my question....

it might be as cheap as £5k ... but not sure, it all depends as it is an auction.


So, if it's £5k with the known fault, what's it worth without the fault?

I don't know values for cars with this mileage, mine has done 30k, but what's the car worth in "normal condition," so that we can put a value on the fault.

Example is it a 7k car normally, possibly being sold for 5k

(And in all this, make sure you include ALL the auction costs, which can sometimes be as much as a thousand including commissions & fees - sounds absurd, but some do this)
 
Well I managed to go and have a look at the car and started it up.
It started up as normal and sounded sweet :) no rattles or nasty noises...
Now it has had a few codes, 5 to be precise:
0276 Continuous camshaft adjustment (LEFT incorrect position of the intake camshaft P0022)
2389 The position of the intake camshaft (Cylinder bank 2) deviates from the specified value in direction 'retarded' during cold start.
2228 The left fuel level sensor has an electrical fault.
2326 The engine off time has an implausible value
0856 Component Y110 (three disk thermostat valve) jams in opened position: coolant temperature rises too slowly (P0128)
 
Lexus LS460 ?

I'll leave it to others to comment on your last post. (I know my place). But, I notice that you used to own a Lexus LS460. To ask an obvious question, why buy an S500L with a known fault, when you've been used to riding in what are rumoured to be the most reliable cars in the World?

(I have my theories, but I'd be interested in your comment)
 
It's valued at £9k ish, engine management light was on when it got MOTed Dec 2014. May well need new front disc and a few other bits.
Low amount of owners is a good thing IMO, can you find one privately ?
 
Well a waist of time ... lol
The car sold £5600 ... I did bid to £5700 however the auctioneer seem to have preferred to ignore my bid and without warning has given it to the hall bidder.
I have rasied a complaint and making a big fuss as this auction has left me with my mouth open. I have been bidding for many years and never had this kind of treatment.

Anyhow someone else has the car now...

Mikeinwimbledon, still have the Lexus LS460 as well as the CLS500 and the Laguna and the 95 lol :)
The Lexus is indeed excellent and fully loaded. It is going tomorrow for some warranty repair and service tomorrow in Lexus.

Oh by the way ... I had this toy to drive for a few hours last Saturday!! the LC500 V8
I have to say I wish I had £90k ... to spend. The sound it made from the lovely 5.0l V8 ooohh :) so so loved it!
 

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:devil::devil::rock:
 

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Shame....but there's always tomorrow.

That's a shame, but on the other hand there's always another car around the corner. The S500 wasn't a unique bargain.

Apologies for not realising that you owned that great quartet of cars, but still bemused about why you'd buy the S500L in addition to the LS460i.

I've often wondered about the LS, but bought the S500L because it seems to drive better and is one of those "global standards." Do you think the LS is better than the S500 - apart from obviously being more reliable than any Merc - just because it IS a Lexus....
 
The Lexus we have has all the gadgets, rear entertainment package with screen, adjustable rear seats, climate seats front/rear. Fully autonomous cruise control, lane keep, automatic parking (a bit of a joke to use lol), infrared headlights that are excellent by far the best I have experienced with any car I had before, precollision front radar, rear radar etc... and the 19" wheels... and plenty more. It has all the extras ticked on it.

The specific S500l had all the gadgets too, rear entertainment package, panoramic roof, distronic plus, night vision, keyless go etc etc... loads of options.. hence I wanted it.
It is not often you find one of these fully loaded, well I cannot find any on sale as we speak with all the options.... so this was the only option.

I have not driven a W221 yet to compare with the LS460 to be honest.
I can definetally say the LS does drive like you are on a silk pillow, it "only has 85000 miles" and plenty of power 380sh and I achieve 32mpg on the motorway. Only thing is I find the 7tronic gearbox on the CLS smoother than the 8 speed gearbox on the LS.

The LS 's do have a lot of problems as well, hence I got the extended warranty as soon as I bought the LS lol :) so I have peace of mind for a whole year.
 

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