Looking for expert in consumer Law

[nimishashar]

Hello,

I have a problem with a car I recently bought privately(24th April). It had full dealer service history and i verified this with the dealer. On the 11th June the engine blew-up and was quoted £8k to replace engine, decided not to use VW and went to indepedant engine rebuilding company who quoted £3k. They started work and informed me that they could not rebuild due to damage the engine had sustained. Have susbsequently found out that on the last serivce carried out by the last owner (FEB 09) the wrong oil was used and this is what contrubited to the engine failing (independant vehicle surveyor) The dealership is saying hard luck because I did not get the car serviced by them, as the previous owner did I do not have any comebacks. How is this justice ! We have an invoice for the service showing that the wrong oil was used but at present cannot do anything about it.

Any thoughts on what i should be doing?

Regards


Nimish

 

[Rory]

I think you're stuffed.

My only thought would be that perhaps you could sue the garage in the small claims court (using http://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk ) where you can claim up to £5K for a minimal cost. But I'm really doubtful that you would win. SCC decisions can be a bit random though, and many defendants don't bother to file a defence, so you win by default.

Perhaps Trading Standards would get involved in their own right for the garage generically (rather then specific to you/previous owner) doing unsatisfactory work. Doubtful though.

 

[neilrr]

CAB or Trading Standards been any help?

 

[EDZ649]

I think that's total cr*p to be honest. My company gives a fully comprehensive guarantee on all products and workmanship for ten years. It doesn't matter if the person who paid for the work to be done moves away, the guarantee is on the product we supplied and fitted, not the purchaser, so the new owner of the house gets the full benefit of the guarantee remaining. It's no different if you buy a secondhand car that's still under manufacturers warranty, it passes to the new owner. I would go straight to trading standards if I were you.

 

[andy27168]

Hi,
Are we talking about a main MB dealer who put the wrong oil in the car?
If so i would be dropping a mail to MB UK, explaining what one of their dealers has done by incompetance and not following MB servicing procedure and their response to you when told of the situation.
But if you go this route please check on your facts regarding the oil, as there are different spec oils, try going to another MB and ask for a litre of oil for the car and see which one they give you.

 

[LTD]

I think it's a VW .....

 

[nimishashar]

CAB or Trading Standards been any help?

So far no but have suggested that I go by the supply of goods act, since it was the dealers duty to follow maufacturers guyidelines and that by using the wrong oil, they have been negligent. But the get out of jail card is still the fact that i wasnt the customer at the time of the service. Which in reality puts service history in questions as it is expected that a dealership would follow all manufacturers instructions to the max..

 

[nimishashar]

Hi,
Are we talking about a main MB dealer who put the wrong oil in the car?
If so i would be dropping a mail to MB UK, explaining what one of their dealers has done by incompetance and not following MB servicing procedure and their response to you when told of the situation.
But if you go this route please check on your facts regarding the oil, as there are different spec oils, try going to another MB and ask for a litre of oil for the car and see which one they give you.

I have had shell oil UK verify that the wrong oil was used, and also verify that the damage on the engine was due to that. In addition VW sent out a dealer bulletin in 2007 and its on their website stipulating that the oil should be to a certain spec for earlier cars, and the oil that they used was for modified 2006+ cars.

 

[davidjpowell]

I think you will struggle as you do not have a contract with the garage that did the work. Is there any mileage in looking to claim against the previous owner, who may then be able to list the garage as a co-defendant.

I would have thought it was worth a consultation with a solicitor who specialises in motor trade given the amount of money involved.

 

[BTB 500]

Out of interest, what is the age & mileage of the car? How many miles has it done since the service in February?

 

[BTB 500]

Is there any mileage in looking to claim against the previous owner

It was a private sale, so no comeback on the seller at all.

 

[dougal74]

I think you have two issues to overcome: -

i) there was no contract between you and the dealer which did the service
ii) you gave no opportunity to the dealer to rectify the problem by taking it to an indie

My view, and it is only my view, the best you can hope for would be a goodwill/out of court settlement because I don't think you have a strong enough case to win.

However, on the plus side the time between cause (oil) and effect (failure) is less than 6 months which is generally regarded as the threshold of when the onus passes from supplier to owner to "prove" the existence of the defect.

You could argue against (i) that there is an implied contract given your checking of the service history with them and presence of the invoice. Given (ii) above you will not be able to claim the full amount in any event (e.g. no labour) but a reasonable proportion of the rectification cost (parts).

As general advice, in these circumstances always return the car to the party at fault (apart from private sales) and leave it with them giving them every opportunity to rectify.

 

[nimishashar]

I think you have two issues to overcome: -

i) there was no contract between you and the dealer which did the service
ii) you gave no opportunity to the dealer to rectify the problem by taking it to an indie

My view, and it is only my view, the best you can hope for would be a goodwill/out of court settlement because I don't think you have a strong enough case to win.

However, on the plus side the time between cause (oil) and effect (failure) is less than 6 months which is generally regarded as the threshold of when the onus passes from supplier to owner to "prove" the existence of the defect.

You could argue against (i) that there is an implied contract given your checking of the service history with them and presence of the invoice. Given (ii) above you will not be able to claim the full amount in any event (e.g. no labour) but a reasonable proportion of the rectification cost (parts).

As general advice, in these circumstances always return the car to the party at fault (apart from private sales) and leave it with them giving them every opportunity to rectify.

Unforunately i live aprox 130 miles away from the offending dealership and as the engine blew up the car couldnt be taken there so i took it to the local vw garage and since they quoted the 7k, i couldnt afford that and so decided that going to an idie at 3k was foar more reasonable as i would be footing the bill, it was after that that i fopund out about the extent of the damage and also the fact that the wrong oil was used. After this i called the dealership and they offered me a free service when the car was fixed as a gesture of goodwill. Given they were the cause of the problem, morally i would have thought they would have certain business ethics that they would honour, but i guess in this day.. its get whatever you can out of someone

 

[nimishashar]

Out of interest, what is the age & mileage of the car? How many miles has it done since the service in February?

The car is a 2004 model touareg and when it was serviced it had 82k miles, and when it blewup it had 88k. Also the servicing dealer was the only garage to service the car from new, since also they were the ones who sold the car new in the 1st place

 

[nimishashar]

I think you will struggle as you do not have a contract with the garage that did the work. Is there any mileage in looking to claim against the previous owner, who may then be able to list the garage as a co-defendant.

I would have thought it was worth a consultation with a solicitor who specialises in motor trade given the amount of money involved.

wheere would i find such a solicitor, i dont mind throwing money at this one, since i believe that the dealer is getting away with it through a loop- hole and not nesessarily any real reason

 

[BTB 500]

the wrong oil was used and this is what contrubited to the engine failing (independant vehicle surveyor)

Contributed to or caused? Big difference.

 

[nick mercedes]

wheere would i find such a solicitor, i dont mind throwing money at this one, since i believe that the dealer is getting away with it through a loop- hole and not nesessarily any real reason

The problem you have is that you have no contract with said dealer for anything.

Aren't there any used engines around?

 

[Will]

I hate to say it, but I think you're just going to have to fix it on your own. Maybe look around for a decent 2nd hand engine, this is after all an older 88k mile car now.

Unfortunately you don't have a right to chase the dealer for work that was carried out prior to your ownership by someone else. And you can't really blame the previous owner either, this was a private sale after all.

Private sales tend to be cheaper than dealer supplied vehicles partly because of events like this. You could however have considered a third-party warranty (although I do note this recent issue over the type of oil). Some you win, some you lose I guess

Out of interest, what was the type of oil that was used and what should it have been? And what was the engine type?

Will

 

[glojo]

I hate to say it, but I think you're just going to have to fix it on your own. Maybe look around for a decent 2nd hand engine, this is after all an older 88k mile car now.

Unfortunately you don't have a right to chase the dealer for work that was carried out prior to your ownership by someone else. And you can't really blame the previous owner either, this was a private sale after all.

Private sales tend to be cheaper than dealer supplied vehicles partly because of events like this. You could however have considered a third-party warranty (although I do note this recent issue over the type of oil). Some you win, some you lose I guess

Out of interest, what was the type of oil that was used and what should it have been? And what was the engine type?

Will

Purely as a lay person I go along with Will. The previous owner allegedly paid for the service so it has nothing to do with you and here is a question that I do not think has been asked..

PROOF

Can you prove the wrong oil was used? Have you retained the old oil and does that oil indicate it caused the damage you allege.

When you bougght this car you could have taken out a warranty and that might have saved the day?

I wish you luck but please do not get suckered into throwing good money after bad.

Did the engine die all of a sudden? I would have thought using the wrong type of oil would have taken time tocause this damage anmd it might havebeen showing signs when you bought the car?

 

[nimishashar]

I hate to say it, but I think you're just going to have to fix it on your own. Maybe look around for a decent 2nd hand engine, this is after all an older 88k mile car now.

Unfortunately you don't have a right to chase the dealer for work that was carried out prior to your ownership by someone else. And you can't really blame the previous owner either, this was a private sale after all.

Private sales tend to be cheaper than dealer supplied vehicles partly because of events like this. You could however have considered a third-party warranty (although I do note this recent issue over the type of oil). Some you win, some you lose I guess

Out of interest, what was the type of oil that was used and what should it have been? And what was the engine type?

Will

The oil used was 5w/30 and its should have been 0w/30, and dealers hyave been informed back in 2007 about the problems about heads overheating/cracking cams breaking, valves issues etc.. It is the r5 2.5 diesel engine manufactured in 2004. Even if you check shell/castrol etc oil manufacturers website they specify that it has to be 0w/30