looks like the dale farm encampment is staying

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tommy2 said:
If you lot continue with all this bickering, there will be PM's flying all over the place,in no time at all.
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Flying prime ministers??? :dk:

What on earth are you on about? Shouldn't you be out looking for fares?
 
312 Sprinter said:
There are posts in this thread alleging that these travellers are misappropriating benefits and making a living by illegal means. There are laws against that sort of thing, but the penalties don't include moving a whole load of people off their land. If that is indeed the case then individuals should be prosecuted.

If you replaced "pikeys" with Jews or Jamaicans or whatever some of the sentiments being expressed in this thread would be considered wholly unacceptable.

As far as I can see Basildon council didn't attempt to solve the issue, all they did was spend £18m on moving it a few miles down the road. I question whether that is a good way of spending public funds.
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Its because like you some people are so quick to defend them or find excuses for them that the council needed to spend 18M which I believe was money well spent. If they set up a fund to recover that money for local taxpayers I will join the cue to donate. While I dont think for a second it was spent wisely it was necessary, JUST to make a point.

You see, Yes I agree you could substitute the common derogatory terms people use with that of other races or religions, but that is not appropriate here. Thankfully there are laws in the UK and around the world that prosecute those that criticize race or religion, - but NOT belief.
Which is why certain people evade prosecution for defiling a symbol we in the UK hold dear, and that is the poppy. And that belief unfortunately, and in a polite way, is that with most of society, these people are considered to be an uncontrollable element.

Wrongly I agree, many irish people that come to live in the UK are seen as stereotypical loud, brash self centred, who then portray themselves as the victim. They are very good at this and forever purport to be the down trodden and bullied. Yes in history the irish have had a raw deal from some of the elitist royals and aristocrat types from the English. But its a role they continue to play and play so well. In fact more often than not its actually those very same hard done by romany traveller types that are often the bully the scoundrel or thief (Although not all of them).

While as our welcome guests they say they want to travel yet set up residence where they know they shouldn't, they leave streams of rubbish and filth in their wake, they take advantage of our good nature, while they remain loud and brash and often steal and take advantage of everyone they can. Preying not only the helpless and infirm but anyone they can. While many of us chose to work hard, pay our taxes, educate our kids to know right from wrong and hope to aspire in the world, and be kind to one another, these people do none of these things. They chose to live in the manner that they do that most decent people find abhorrent and bad.

It is actually insulting to any other race or creed to make a comparison with these people. Because it is they, their beliefs and their culture that is what the majority of people dont like about them. And they know it. It is not because they are or call themselves travellers, or are irish. It is because to most people they are the opposite of OUR way of life, beliefs and culture. They are the epitome of all that is bad in humanity.
And I actually pity them.
 
clever dicky said:
many irish people that come to live in the UK are seen as stereotypical loud, brash self centred, who then portray themselves as the victim. They are very good at this and forever purport to be the down trodden and bullied. Yes in history the irish have had a raw deal from some of the elitist royals and aristocrat types from the English. But its a role they continue to play and play so well. In fact more often than not its actually those very same hard done by romany traveller types that are often the bully the scoundrel or thief (Although not all of them).
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Not since that dozy redneck have I heard such bile spouted in one post.
 
How was it money well spent? The people that used to live on the site are now presumably parked on a verge somewhere.

If it is indeed the case that these people were engaged in criminal activity then the authorities should have prosecuted those offences. People who are locked up for a criminal offence can hardly reside somewhere illegally.

The whole illegal activities argument is a complete and utter nonsense. Basildon council moved on everyone from adults to infants. If criminal activity was going on, taking action against a community as a whole isn't a legitimate way of dealing with it.

The issue therefore is people living on that particular piece of land. There were 86 caravans I believe. I think it's perfectly legitimate to question how it is that a council spends in excess of £200K per pitch to move them off that piece of land and ends up with them parked illegally just down the road.

Given a budget of £200K it ought to be possible to organise somewhere a caravan can be parked legally and hopefully have a bit of change left over.
 
clever dicky said:
So what is YOUR excuse then ?:dk:
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My excuse for what?

I try and give another side to what the popular opinion is on the forum.

You spout rhetoric straight from the letters page of the Daily Wail.
 
312 Sprinter said:
If it is indeed the case that these people were engaged in criminal activity then the authorities should have prosecuted those offences.
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They did, they broke all the planning laws, only instead of just leaving they managed to string it out for 10 years, and even when they lost they refused to leave, hense the scenes of the police being pelted with bricks.

312 Sprinter said:
The whole illegal activities argument is a complete and utter nonsense.
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They're all honest law abiding tax paying citizens are they?
 
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nick mercedes said:
They did, they broke all the planning laws, only instead of just leaving they managed to string it out for 10 years, and even when they lost they refused to leave, hense the scenes of the police being pelted with bricks.



They're all honest law abiding tax paying citizens are they?
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Certainly not law abiding. That has now been proven. The highest court in the land has found against them:D
 
312 Sprinter said:
How was it money well spent? T
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The planning system is important.

All our houses have value because they are on land that has a permit for residential usage. Say 50% of their worth is in the land.

If we allow unrestricted development our houses automatically lose value and may also be adversely impacted by new development.

This will put millions of people into negative equity.

For starters.
 
Whatever your stance on Travellers, I think we can all enjoy politically naive white middle class dreadlocked kids being tasered.
 
clever dicky said:
Its because like you some people are so quick to defend them or find excuses for them that the council needed to spend 18M which I believe was money well spent. If they set up a fund to recover that money for local taxpayers I will join the cue to donate. While I dont think for a second it was spent wisely it was necessary, JUST to make a point.
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So which is it then ??

The local Council Tax payers that you are concerned about would have seen a lot less than £18m of public money wasted had Basildon Council dealt with the problem many years ago. Instead they have mucked about, let the problem escalate and are now trying to claim credit for having done the right thing and dealt with the matter properly. In the private sector, those responsible for this indecision and waste would be sacked for gross incompetence.
 
Travellers

Why are these people called "Travellers" when in fact the most travelling they ever do is to visit their expensive properties in Ireland?
 
Have Basildon Council actually "mucked about" as has oft been said here and elsewhere, or is it the legal system endlessly arguing over the meaning of words at the taxpayer's expense that is the real villain here? Decision, appeal, counter appeal, review, appeal, counter appeal, review, appeal, counter appeal, fresh motion, appeal etc etc.

Repeat while there is money in the public purse.
 
Scott_F said:
So which is it then ??

The local Council Tax payers that you are concerned about would have seen a lot less than £18m of public money wasted had Basildon Council dealt with the problem many years ago. Instead they have mucked about, let the problem escalate and are now trying to claim credit for having done the right thing and dealt with the matter properly. In the private sector, those responsible for this indecision and waste would be sacked for gross incompetence.
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You have to to look at the BIG picture to understand. But the point was in simple terms is that ANY amount of money is / was necessary to do the job and make a point. Yes they could have sent the balifs in 10 years ago, but they are not dealing with any joe public are they? (I personally believe it should be a border control issue, but that might offend some people)

If you read the rest of my post you should have picked up the fact I was being overly polite and trying to raise the tone and be respectful. But lets face it, consider the people, no forget they're people, just consider their culture habits and most of all 'intent'. Yes Basildon council 'could' have saved money, yes they could have 'forced' the issue years ago.

But let me ask you one question, WHY SHOULD THEY HAVE TO ? :crazy:

And the old saying, two in fact, one for each side.
"Give an inch and they will take a mile", for one.

And the other, " Better late than never" !!! :bannana::bannana::bannana:
 
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