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Lorries face London ban 'to protect cyclists'

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by st13phil, Sep 30, 2016.

  1. st13phil

    st13phil MB Club Veteran

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    Latest proposal from Citizen Khan.

    I'm sorry, but I fail to see why it's lorries that are the problem when lemming-like idiots on pedal cycles insist on putting themselves in a position alongside a truck where they get squashed :dk:
     
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  2. brucemillar

    brucemillar MB Club Veteran

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    This is not new. In NYC it has been law for many years (indeed in may US cities) not to protect cyclists but to stop traffic congestion as they block lanes etc.

    I think that we also need to be careful not blame all cyclists and all HGV drivers here. The fact is that cyclists are being killed at an alarming rate in London. Many recent cases have led to HGV drivers being successfully prosecuted for causing death by dangerous driving, driving without due care etc, as well as some highlighting grave issues with training (or lack off).

    One recently well publicised case showed a young lady being dragged under an HGV when the driver was shown & proven to have not checked his mirrors for a significant period of time, despite knowing that he was in heavy traffic and turning left with standing traffic on his left side.

    I offer no simple solution. But I am also not surprised that a daytime ban is being considered. Self policing within the HGV industry is not working.

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crim...ting-and-killing-cyclist-esther-a3354831.html
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/18264...ore-cyclist-was-crushed-to-death-court-hears/
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2016
  3. gunning

    gunning Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    The issue is lorries have huge blind spots and you get cyclist flying up the inside out of no where. As a car driver we give them a wide birth due to their size but cyclist don't abide by this rule.

    I like cycling and I love driving. A lot of cyclist cause the issue with ignorance, arrogance to the laws and etiquette of the road and I see it on a daily basis between London and Cornwall. Of course there are bad drivers too but this can be held accountable by law, insurance and so on. Cyclist pay nothing, cause issues and many insurance claims yet have freedom?

    A cyclist crash into my stationary car in traffic and claimed off of me after I helped him up and called him an ambulance. If I saw him now I'd like to smash his face in.

    Argh! Rant over haha
     
  4. Red C220

    Red C220 Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Out of sheer self preservation I just wouldn't cycle in London.

    The streets are fundamentally not designed for it.

    No blame, I just wouldn't do it.
     
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  5. Giantvanman

    Giantvanman Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    It's all very well highlighting one or two cases but the vast majority of the cases I dealt with and knew about were down to error of judgement on the part of the cyclist. In response to these deaths, the Mayor's office started a witch hunt which the media was happy to whip into a false frenzy and only the impartiality of the investigating police sheltered innocent drivers from being lambasted by the cycling mafia and the politicos.

    However, what stupid cyclists (not all are stupid, I hasten to add) have done, in addition to killing themselves, is cause the haulage industry to have to spend untold thousands on extra equipment and training and every other month there seems to be another 'initiative' to make them spend more and more. They have also cost the taxpayer a fortune for lanes, dedicated separate paths etc.

    By the same token, what is being asked of the cyclists? Sweet nothing. I drove around London the other day and the dimwits don't use the dedicated and safe, separate lanes and paths but still jump lights and ride up the side of moving lorries and buses, even when the vehicle is indicating to turn left.

    The pendulum needs to swing back and more emphasis put on the behaviour, training and accountability of the cyclists. It's not rocket science; do not ride up the nearside of an indicating vehicle or if there is a junction ahead, don't go up the nearside of large vehicles whether they are moving or indicating or not. Most lorries even have a sign on the rear nearside warning cyclists, for heaven's sake.

    EDIT: I caught part of a section on the news where cyclists were being shown how bad the blind spots on lorries were, even with all the mirrors. Some were shocked because they didn't know realise......more spoon feeding by the nanny state required, I feel.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2016
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  6. GLK

    GLK Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    I encounter at least one a day, usually more, cycling the wrong way in out tiny one-way street, with cars parked on both sides.

    For some reason, they almost always overflowing with indignation and hatred :dk:

    I never even look their way now (well, I don't make eye contact, to be precise) - the last thing I want is my OS mirror kicked in - seen it happened to a car in front of me about a month ago ...
     
  7. d w124

    d w124 MB Club Veteran

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    He wont be there long if he carries on like this
     
  8. OP
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    st13phil

    st13phil MB Club Veteran

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    I completely agree (my bold).

    However, it won't happen because there's a swell of muddled transport thinking that starts with the premise that pedal cycles = good and motorised transport = bad (unless it's a TfL bus, of course :rolleyes: ). This flawed tenet underpins virtually every bit of transport thinking in London and is rapidly spreading across the country.

    God help us all :wallbash:
     
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  9. moonloops

    moonloops Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Here's a hanty tip for cyclists, why not sit behind stationary traffic rather the sliding up the inside of traffic that's indicating left turn? Sounds better plan than been impaled on your own handlebars underneath a lorry or bus (saw this happen on edgeware road IIRC)
     
  10. Dryce

    Dryce MB Club Veteran

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    The reaction of the authorities where cyclists are involved tends to be one sided. However if a cyclist comes into harm's way on the road then the result is likely to be one sided.

    I think this sort of ban sends the wrong messages. Cyclists are a significant part of the problem. Going after HGVs or any other group basically says that cyclists don't have to contribute anything to improving safety.

    I think the Mayor would have more credibility if he approached this from both trying to make the environment for cyclists safer and making cyclists safer in the environment.

    So they should be looking looking at stricter enforcement of cyclists - introducing mandatory (though possibly free training) and a requirement for cyclists in London to have completed the training and carry a certificate and identification - possibly introducing a 'cycling aware' course for cyclists and motorists who get involved in minor transgressions - and banning cyclists from some routes and roads.

    Mandatory training and enforcement of rules would be a good start.
     
  11. Piha

    Piha New Member

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    If you read the article I do believe it states the idea is not to ban all lorries from the capitals streets but to encourage the use of lorries with greater visibility, phased in over a period of time. Is this a bad thing?

    I think that the casualty figures include pedestrians, so I would assume the figures are more about vulnerable road users rather than cyclists v motorists. I see some terrible cyclists in London and some terrible car/van/lorry drivers too but when a fleshy human has an argument with a HGV the outcome isn't going to be great for the pedestrian or cyclist.
     
  12. brucemillar

    brucemillar MB Club Veteran

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    ....and lets not forget motorcyclists who do this almost at will, happily removing wing mirrors as they sidle past, announcing their presence by blipping the throttle.
     
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    st13phil

    st13phil MB Club Veteran

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    I actually think that there's a deeper problem here.

    The obsession we have with 'Elf 'n' Safety in this country has lead to the situation where people honestly believe that they will not be exposed to risks with nasty consequences as they go about their day-to-day existence. This is because someone else - some nebulous being - has somehow previously ensured that everything around them is safe. There's therefore no need for them to step back from a situation and make their own assessment of risk and furthermore, if the wheel comes off, then it'll be someone else's fault for not keeping them safe.

    It's interesting to compare this with the attitude in other countries. We took some friends of ours to Valencia earlier this year to see the Fallas de San Jose festival. This is a fire festival and the (good natured) antics that go on during it would give the average UK council safety inspector palpitations. Do the Spaniards manage to kill and maim themselves during the festival? No, of course they don't. Why? Because they recognise that being next to (and often in the middle of) massive firework displays carries a risk so they take responsibility for themselves and don't do anything stupid. I suspect that cyclists getting squashed by trucks isn't a great problem in Madrid, either.
     
  14. Pontoneer

    Pontoneer MB Club Veteran

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    My feeling is that , instead of banning HGV's , the drivers of which are already highly trained and regulated , might be to introduce compulsory training and licensing for those who wish to cycle on the streets of London ( which seems to be where the biggest problem is ) and potentially rolling the scheme out to the rest of the country . Having licenced cyclists display 'number plates' would also make them accountable to traffic light cameras and further reduce problems in city streets .
     
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  15. 190

    190 Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    If that is the norm in London then they are giving motorcyclist in general a bad name.

    I commute daily on a motorcycle and would never overtake on the inside only on the outside and only when it's safe. At 62 I gave up blipping the throttle in traffic a long time ago.

    Overall motorcyclists are the victims being injured and killed on a regular basis through no fault of their own by cars violating their right of way. "I didn't see you" doesn't wash when I'm wearing full hi viz and a white helmet. Happened to me again last week. What she meant was she didn't look.

    I'm not trying to defend bad cyclists or motorcyclists but a problem exists where users of bigger vehicles don't look or rather don't see two wheeled vehicles however conspicuous they are because they are only programmed to see something that is a hazard to themselves i.e. something big like a car.
     
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  16. DavidL

    DavidL Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Personally I'd go further and say I wouldn't cycle on the road in traffic full stop. You're just too vulnerable whom ever is to blame, if there even is blame. Too much traffic, not enough space and amode of transport that can't keep up when traffic does flow.
    Cycle paths sound a great idea but as always some people don't like them and there aren't that many of them in comparison with roads.
     
  17. lfckeeper

    lfckeeper Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Simple, but effective, solution is to make it a road traffic offence to cycle down the nearside of cars moving slowly or have stopped (ie stop when the traffic has stopped) .. ive never understood why cyclists dont do this anyway.

    As soon as you pass a cyclist and approach traffic lights or a roundabout (where they may undertake you again) all i feel im doing is wondering where the cyclist is. My attention is disproportionately on them. Im sure others are the same.

    I wonder how many accidents have been caused (car on car) because a driver is busy searching for the whereabouts of a cyclist.
     
  18. OP
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    st13phil

    st13phil MB Club Veteran

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    Nice idea, but that would make all the advanced stop boxes for cyclists at London traffic lights redundant. After all, it would have the dual benefit of cyclists not killing themselves and it would improve traffic flow. Nope, that would never do.
     
  19. Delayed Steve

    Delayed Steve Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    I think that actual lorry drivers will be more than happy to be banned out of London! I haven't met one yet that wants to drive there!
    They have to contend with cyclists,low bridges,narrow streets,parked cars, cars coming up the inside when they're trying to turn left and when they get to where they've got to deliver they get fined for stopping!
     
  20. Fady

    Fady Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    That's the thing - the streets are fundamentally not designed for HGVs or even for cars for that matter. In the areas of highest consideration such as Central London, the layout of the streets pre-dates the invention of the car. So you have everything now vying for spaces designed for horse-drawn carriages.
     

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