Lorries face London ban 'to protect cyclists'

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That's absolutely true, of course. The problem is that trucks are needed to bring the many tons of goods that are required every day into the Capital and distribute them though, so it's obvious that you should ban them and give priority instead to a mode of transport that's basically a lifestyle choice.
 
Good point Phil. They could make the HGV's offload at a depot just inside the M25 then get the cyclists to deliver the goods from there. Give them all a 1cwt trailer: that should cramp their style.
 
Let me start with an important point. I love cycling and I do a lot with my kids however I don't cycling as part of commuting to work
On my daily commute to the city of London I see a lot of cyclists playing a Russian roulette. The city is full of busses delivery vehicles as well as HGVS so you need to be super careful. Can we ban HGVS ? Not really.. the impact to the wider economy is massive. Pushing then out of work hours will not work either
So you need both strict regulations about HGVS but at the same time make cyclists accountable and responsible for their actions. Only problem if a cyclist does a stupid and lethal mistake you have nobody to prosecute but the opposite doesn't apply5. Also the local councils need to take responsibility as well. Painting a white line doesn't really make a cycling path
 
I regularly cycle in central London and I see some absolutely crazy cycling acts. Squeezing between buses and up the inside of the cars/lorries/buses.

Actually you can't believe how well the bus drivers act with cyclist around. Black cabs less so and frankly I treat tipper trucks with absolute caution.

Although I do think that banning lorries is an overreaction I do have a friend (very experienced and careful cyclist) who was killed last year by a tripper lorry and a driver who had previously killed a cyclist in similar circumstances.

Really there is no clear solution here but certainly too many people of getting killed.
 
This may sound odd, but excessive enforcement actually increases the number of accidents.

In this case, removal of some measures aimed at protecting cyclist - instead of adding new ones - will in fact increase their safety.

This is similar to what has been trialed in both the Netherlands and in the UK - complete removal off all road markings, signage, and traffic lights.

Cyclists who bang on the roof of your car in anger because they believe their progress was somehow impeded by your vehicle, are exercising their sense of entitlement, which will one day get them killed.

I spend my holidays in the South of Italy where during the summer the roads in the small villages are full of cyclists of all ages. There are no accidents - because no one assumes they have 'right of way' and everyone - cyclists and motorists alike - are constantly on the lookout for each other.

Rule of thumb for safe driving? Approach a junction with a green traffic light in the same way as you would approach it if you were about to jump a red light - very carefully.... assume nothing and expect everything.
 
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It's have a go at cyclists time again I see. Of course there are stupid and dangerous cyclists, just as there are stupid and dangerous vehicle drivers. From what I read here everyone puts the blame for injuries to cyclists wholly on the cyclists' shoulders. A very blinkered view as usual.

A couple of examples from my own experience of cycling in London, albeit many years ago when I was 14 or 15:

1) Cycling along a relatively quiet road when a bus, only going slightly faster, overtook me on a slight bend forcing me into the kerb and gradually leaving me with no space whatsoever as its wheels hit the kerb. I ended up with a broken leg and badly damaged bike. I hadn't "slid up the inside" of the bus. The bus didn't stop.

2) Riding into Hyde Park the traffic in front of me stopped. Rather than moving onto the pavement or attempting to edge along either side of the stopped vehicles, I braked behind them. Only to have a taxi plough into the back of me! The cabbie got out and had a go at me for braking without warning, then he tried to make me grateful that he wasn't going to sue me for denting his front bumper! Then he drove off and left me with a severely buckled rear wheel and a bleeding shin. I had to carry my bike the nine miles home.

Of course many cyclists incur injuries and death through their own faults. But they're not all to blame. Respect is needed both ways.
 
Druk said:
Good point Phil. They could make the HGV's offload at a depot just inside the M25 then get the cyclists to deliver the goods from there. Give them all a 1cwt trailer: that should cramp their style.
Click to expand...

Brilliant! :D
 
st13phil said:
That's absolutely true, of course. The problem is that trucks are needed to bring the many tons of goods that are required every day into the Capital and distribute them though, so it's obvious that you should ban them and give priority instead to a mode of transport that's basically a lifestyle choice.
Click to expand...

Trust me, the way certain political parties are going, they'll be using a horse and cart to transport goods around the capital before long...
 
In a way it comes back to the old "who owns that bit of road question" . Well the reality is its owned by the bus or truck --not by right or regulation but by the laws of physics. It would appear some cyclists ignore that fundamental truth that frequently asserts itself to their detriment.
 
Hi,
With modern sensors and camera technology - it would be easy to retrofit equipment on trucks that would cover the blind spots and enable the driver to see and hear if a cyclist or pedestrian is in their near side blind spot.
If the mayor insists on equipment being fitted by a certain date or the trucks being banned - then most would spend a few hundred pounds to comply and avoid being unable to drive though London during the day.
Cheers
Steve
 
It's two sided this Lorry Cyclists thing.

You'll get a person jump on a Boris Bike after coming out a Bar/Pub and cycle down the road worse for where wandering all over the place.

There's no test or road sense at all.
Watch them going round any main town one way system like Wandsworth,
Not stopping for Red Lights and just wandering wherever they want.
Thinking they got brakes let them stop.

most accidents do involve Lorrys but nearly every time the Cyclists is to blame.
 
ExMercTech said:
You'll get a person jump on a Boris Bike after coming out a Bar/Pub and cycle down the road worse for where wandering all over the place.

There's no test or road sense at all.
Watch them going round any main town one way system like Wandsworth,
Not stopping for Red Lights and just wandering wherever they want.
Click to expand...

Where I work (Strand) they often ride along the pavement. Well it's one way to avoid the traffic I suppose :rolleyes:
 
Steveml63 said:
Hi,
With modern sensors and camera technology - it would be easy to retrofit equipment on trucks that would cover the blind spots and enable the driver to see and hear if a cyclist or pedestrian is in their near side blind spot.
If the mayor insists on equipment being fitted by a certain date or the trucks being banned - then most would spend a few hundred pounds to comply and avoid being unable to drive though London during the day.
Cheers
Steve
Click to expand...

A nice theory but lorries already have SEVEN mirrors of six different types that are a legal requirement to check...... (Transports Friend - Mirrors on Commercial Vehicles)

By the time they check them all, the view can easily change. Add in another thing to check - in addition to the normal things that drivers check such as gauges- such as screens for viewing blindspots, and they'll either never dare stop or turn or they'll never set off in the first place.

Wouldn't it be easier to make it mandatory for cyclists to adhere to the warning signs placed on the rear left side of most lorries which warns them against moving up the nearside?

Besides, it isn't just about blind spots along the side or rear. I can stand, for example, ahead and slightly to the left of the front left corner of the lorry in bright yellow clothing and be invisible to the driver....if that doesn't impact much, see my forum tag.. I'm not small in any direction and a lot taller and wider that a cyclist, except maybe for the knobs who ride Penny Farthings. Or the odd tall unicycle.
 
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Steveml63 said:
Hi,
With modern sensors and camera technology - it would be easy to retrofit equipment on trucks that would cover the blind spots and enable the driver to see and hear if a cyclist or pedestrian is in their near side blind spot.
If the mayor insists on equipment being fitted by a certain date or the trucks being banned - then most would spend a few hundred pounds to comply and avoid being unable to drive though London during the day.
Cheers
Steve
Click to expand...

Or the haulage companies might think it's not worth the expense to deliver in London at all and then that would leave the odd one that will and they would charge accordingly.. :fail
 
Pontoneer said:
My feeling is that , instead of banning HGV's , the drivers of which are already highly trained and regulated , might be to introduce compulsory training and licensing for those who wish to cycle on the streets of London ( which seems to be where the biggest problem is ) and potentially rolling the scheme out to the rest of the country . Having licenced cyclists display 'number plates' would also make them accountable to traffic light cameras and further reduce problems in city streets .
Click to expand...

Agree with this, I drive for a living in London and have moved onto night shifts with part of the reason being to avoid cyclists.
 
Pontoneer said:
My feeling is that , instead of banning HGV's , the drivers of which are already highly trained and regulated , might be to introduce compulsory training and licensing for those who wish to cycle on the streets of London ( which seems to be where the biggest problem is ) and potentially rolling the scheme out to the rest of the country . Having licenced cyclists display 'number plates' would also make them accountable to traffic light cameras and further reduce problems in city streets .
Click to expand...

Won't happen any time soon... the current climate is for encouraging cycling as means of reducing pollution, CO2 emmissions, and congestion.

This is not just for ideological reasons, there are some very practical sides to it.

Firstly, the government is committed to CO2 targets.

Secondly, the only real alternative to reducing congestion involves massive investment in our roads.

For these reasons.... any act that is seen as curtaling the cheap-and-easy aspect of cycling is doomed.

So it would have been a good idea.... but licensing? Registration? Training? Cost to pay? It will never happen.
 
uumode said:
As mentioned already there are bad drivers and bad cyclists (as well as good ones in both camps)

However, bad cyclists can be more dangerous to others and themselves, and unpredictable, as they don't occupy the same space as a car, some blatantly chose to jump lights.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFhFHo2N6pE&feature=youtu.be&t=10s
Click to expand...

As a London driver, I always watch out for cyclists junping red lights, it's quite common down here.

I learnt to avoid them, but the difficult ones are not the Lycra brigade - they have all the right safety kit - it's those cyclists who cycle at night wearing dark clothes with not a single light or reflector anywhere on their person or on the bike - AND jump a red light - absolutely deadly.
 
Yes, the unlit cyclists in the dark that weave in and out :crazy:
 
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