Lorry Driver Shortage

[flying haggis]

I passed my c+e lgv(hgv class1) test on 21/08/1996.

After the 1st September 1996 there was no longer a direct to c+e lgv test.

You had to do the c test first(which is what I class as rigid above 7.5t) Then once you had that you could do your lgv c+e(artic).

I remember I was in a hurry up to pass before it was all wasted.

Before then there was still the Hgv class 2/3 ( don't know the difference) for rigid trucks above 7.5t.

I could always drive up to 7.5t on a car licence(I think!)
You can still drive up.to 3.5t on a car licence these days( a big transit) on a car licence.

I've lost track of what's what these days, but before 1996 is a strange one to me?
The number of wheels is irrelevant unless you're BJ Mckay!

The unit/trailer combination I drive is 12 on the unit and 20 on the trailer....32 wheels, but it's still only c+e, but it would be stgo(special types general order, which means you are routed and can only go those roads)(don't know what category) if it was on the road.


Also to add fuel to the fire, the cpc regulations of 60hrs(I think)every 5 years classroom work to make you legal on UK roads has also thrown a lot in the mix.....this is why I don't drive LGVs on the road.

we need pics of the unit and trailer please

 

[Benzowner]

All posts after No.74, this was exactly why I brought the subject up. There were many vehicles on the road (lorries) 7.5 tonne gross driven on a car license if you passed your test before 1996 after that you had to take a C1 license which if you were taking that you may as well take the C license and drive a bigger truck with probably more money. Now, the other thing that changed was that you could drive a lorry and drag on an old Class 3 license, but when the new driving licenses came out you couldn't and there were no "grandfather rights" to cover this so you then needed a C+E so you may as well drive arctics. Licenses also got more involved with CPC additions which all driver had to have and I know of many ex drivers who then gave up. CPC is certificate of professional competence where you need to know all the legal stuff, much of which does not involve driving a lorry.

My daughter is a professional horse groom and as such it is preferential she has at least a C license and needed this also as it was illegal to tow a horse box behind a car because of weight. I am sure there are many caravan drivers out there who are breaking the law and don't know it, a 4x4 with a caravan requires a C license. 4x4 max weight is often 3.5 tonnes stick a biggish caravan behind and they are over their maximum allowable weight with just a B license. By the way, although she has a C license she can still not tow a trailer behind a car if combined max weight is over 4.25 tonnes, although she drives a 32 tonne rigid lorry. As they say go figure.

The CPC used to held by the lorries owners who had a man or woman who took the exam to be the operators license holder, it is now the responsibilty of the driver.

 

[Skd884]

Could this all have stemmed from the change in driver license in 1996? Until then when you passed your test you were allowed to drive a 7.5 tonne lorry, which was the vehicle of choice for carrying bulky light goods. Many of those drivers, and I employed quite a few, went on to do their HGV test. Now with no 7.5 tonne drivers progressing through and the population of HGV drivers getting old we had to rely on foreign drivers to fill the gap. The drivers can earn a lot of money, which in the end we will pay for in increased prices.

Blame the Brexit voters, simple.

 

[Dryce]

Blame the Brexit voters, simple.

Definitely.

The shortage in Europe and the US is entirely down to the 2016 referendum and no other factor.

 

[Petrol Pete]

My licence says.
AM
A
B1
B
C1
D1
BE
C1E
D1E
DE

The only driving tests that I took were car and motorcycle. The little picture of the DE one looks lie a 3 axle bus towing a double axle trailer...must get m'self one of those I suppose.

 

[E55BOF]

Blame the Brexit voters, simple.

And simple they were. Too late now, though; we're aaaaaall dooooomed....

 

[flying haggis]

if i remember correctly even with a car licence you "could" drive an artic if it was for personal use only ie fun because it is a classsic etc. and the C1E allowed that but to do it for money ie a job required C+E.
i took an 18T box van our company had on hire back to the hire company for service and was given an artic unit as a courtesy car! when i returned the unit to get the box van back I asked the girl behind the counter why she didnt check I was actually allowed to drive the unit, she was mortified that she hadnt checked !!! if the fifth wheel is covered an artic unit can be driven by a class 2/3 driver but if it is uncovered it has to be a class 1 driver???

 

[flying haggis]

I think you still have to have someone who holds the "operaters" CPC" but that person can also hold a "drivers CPC "

 

[Gollom]

Why can't they use the army to deliver the flu vaccines until things have sorted themselves out?

 

[Tonye]

Because the army use outside sources when in the UK. Just pay a proper wage and this will sort itself in 3 months. Don't blame brexit or the lack of EU drivers, the average age has been 55 for years, why, because a licence costs a fortune and thats just the start, the pay is crap so why do that job. Its a joke. Until the job is respected there will be a shortage and the average age will go up. Get in the real world people.

 

[flowrider]

When my son passed his hgve class 2 a few years ago he couldn't get a driving job because everyone wanted experienced drivers only. How does anyone get to be experienced when no one will employ them? I guess its different now.

 

[markjay]

Definitely.

The shortage in Europe and the US is entirely down to the 2016 referendum and no other factor.

If there a shortage of LGV drivers across Europe? Or mostly in the UK?

 

[Spider10]

There's no shortage of driver's we have a neighbour who is unemployed the job centre put him through his hgv licence and still unemployed and gets dole how does that work the young ones of today don't want work simple

 

[Tonye]

When my son passed his hgve class 2 a few years ago he couldn't get a driving job because everyone wanted experienced drivers only. How does anyone get to be experienced when no one will employ them? I guess its different now.

Agency work for a couple of years

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

If there a shortage of LGV drivers across Europe? Or mostly in the UK?

Last I saw, before covid, was that there was a 400,000 shortage across Europe (see below), and a shortage of about 60,000 in the USA. Same reasons as discussed: half the entrants to the UK jobs market are "graduates" who won't consider low status trucking as a career, the money is average at best, the working conditions and time away from home is poor, and the industry won't countenance women drivers. I think it's something like 98% / 2% men to women.

Then the pandemic comes along, gives buckets of money to people not to work, and generates huge amounts of unskilled work paying better money, from local parcel and food delivery to the whole gamut of interim work right along the supply chain.

There's always the "Brexit argument" about taking badly paid drivers from the East. With only six million EU refugees having applied for settled status in the UK, we could always bring in more from impoverished Eastern Europe, or from the rest of the world.

Europe's road freight market short of more than 400,000 drivers

Here's the US situation

Bloomberg: "A Trucking Crisis Has the U.S. Looking for More Drivers Abroad" Bloomberg - Are you a robot?​

.

 

[Darrell]

When my son passed his hgve class 2 a few years ago he couldn't get a driving job because everyone wanted experienced drivers only. How does anyone get to be experienced when no one will employ them? I guess its different now.

That’s been the case in dozens of trades over the years but somehow it always comes out in the wash.

 

[Dryce]

If there a shortage of LGV drivers across Europe? Or mostly in the UK?

There's allegedly a structural shortage in various parts of the developed world that has been occuring for a while.

The UK is probably worse. But then the UK had its own additional structural problem of becoming over-reliant on imported labour over the last 30 years. It's not a new problem.

 

[nyssa7]

Some empty shelves out here in SW France for around 6 weeks now. Dutch and German friends say same is happening in their countries and - anecdotally - also in Italy and Poland.

Nowt to do with Brexit .... but if the continental HGV drivers are still around, why the problem? Supply chain disruption? But why?

My advice .... keep ample stocks in. Tinned stuff and bottled water last ages.

This

readIng earlier today that the shortage of drivers is not confined to the UK but also affecting much of mainland Europe which suggests something other than Brexit/cheap Labour/etc being the main driver here

 

[Tonye]

Crap pay and conditions for drivers all over the world. Sooner or later the world will wake up to the fact that without us you best sell your car, wife and kids , buy a plot and grow your own.

 

[Petrol Pete]

'Grow your own' ...Great idea that I agree with ,I know you are being sarcastic but raise a very important point. During WW2 we tried to grow our own and would have starved without outside help and in those days everyone managed to start the day without a frothy mocchchinnoionio (light) with Manuka honey and an Avocado on Vegan whole Rye.

We have to get those trucks back on the road ASAP. How ? fruck knows , unless the government gets a grip. After all it is man/woman made rules that is stopping it happening. The rules need to be changed and pay increased. With the pay increase will come price rises', but they are coming anyway...