Lorrys overtaking each other on Dual Carriageways

[st13phil]

If you add up the cost to the atmosphere in CO2 emissions for the lorry overtaking due to no slipstream & the cost of cars having to brake, decelerate then accelerate it seems the hidden underlying impact is quite substantial & not worth the gain to the overtaking lorry. This is without the risk involved in performing this manoeuvre. Doesn't seem worth it to me.

The European Parliament's Committee on Transport and Tourism commissioned a report on the impact of overtaking bans for heavy goods vehicles which was published in 2010 (downloadable here). It makes interesting reading, and concludes that "annual benefits of up to 1500 million euro could be realised by introducing such schemes at optimal locations" across EU countries.

Road trains for all vehicles (cars included) on M-ways seems the only logical way forward.

Actually, the formation of informal "road trains", or "platoons" of HGV's is one of the negatives that the linked report identifies. The particular problems are that they effectively restrict access to junctions for both vehicles wishing to leave and those wishing to join the main carriageway. They also result in road signs being obscured, and there is at least one scheme that was proposed in the UK that was abandoned for exactly those reasons.

 

[Delayed Steve]

Well I don't know where Gr1nch lives but tractor drivers don't pull over where I live, nor caravans lol.
I don't think that lorry drivers start to overtake thinking I'm going to block this road for 15 minutes, it's a consequence of the other lorry building up speed and matching or beating the others speed limiter. If the one on the inside lane is struggling to get 44 ton up a hill he's not going back off to lose the momentum he's gained till he gets on the flat as even then he probably won't just to be a pain, some would though.
On the other hand, who's to blame for the hold up when a lorry pulls into lane 2 to let someone on to the carriageway and that person matches his speed and just sits there?
Or sitting in lane 1 doing 45mph until the lorry starts to overtake and then they speed up and match his speed. He slows down and pulls behind them and they slow down to 45mph again?
The roads are crowded, there are a lot of idiots out there and I've said it before, most car drivers can't drive a truck all truck drivers can drive a car...

 

[Deleted member 6183]

I read about a guy in the paper, he was a hobby cyclist who worked as a lorry driver and, as a younger man, used to ride motorcycles.

Anyway, he was tootling along a dual carriageway on his day off in the car to see his Mum when he got stuck behind a lorry overtaking another lorry, apparently his head exploded, never happened before or since.

 

[Petrol Pete]

IMO @Yugguy makes a very valid point in the Apple Pay thread.

What is this fascination with speed and time saving? Given we are all so keen to save a few seconds here and there, why we are on the other hand, more than willing to waste our lives away watching some soppy soap on TV?

.

Agree. When working in 'North Africa' I could never understand why all and sundry drove their clapped out vehicles at silly (for the type and condition of said vehicle) speeds, making suicidal overtaking manoeuvres and taking chances of breath-taking stupidity just to stop 100 yards later to let someone on/off or untie the goat from the roof rack ? ...and when they got to work they all slowed down to less than walking pace. strange world.

 

[CLSMark]

Agree. When working in 'North Africa' I could never understand why all and sundry drove their clapped out vehicles at silly (for the type and condition of said vehicle) speeds, making suicidal overtaking manoeuvres and taking chances of breath-taking stupidity just to stop 100 yards later to let someone on/off or untie the goat from the roof rack ? ...and when they got to work they all slowed down to less than walking pace. strange world.

Maybe the goat is more important than you?


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[BTB 500]

We can see the big lorries in the outside lane from way back, so we know whenever they’re holding us up. But we’re only alerted to cars causing the same issues when we’re close behind and can see. So lorries get the majority of the blame, almost certainly unreasonably. Perhaps we all have a part to play.

Similarly I've had a few dodgy moments when towing the caravan and stuck behind a slow moving car on a straight single carriageway road. People behind assume the caravan is the issue and a number of times I've had someone perform a pretty marginal overtake (with oncoming traffic) only to find that there's something else in front of me. I know there are some diabolically slow caravanners out there but I'm not one of them

 

[rockits]

I always look at the upside & if the road is clear ahead or clear enough that it warrants an overtake. If there are cars ahead not going any faster and/or junctions or roundabouts etc. soon then there is no point & I won't bother.

Most people don't have this further foresight tough & overtake only to gain very little if anything.

Sometimes it is worth the overtake sometimes not. Every case should be assessed on an individual basis.

The road train obscuring sings is very valid & real but this does happen anyway as the signs are in stupid places. To have them low down on the slowest part of the road to the nearside of big/high HGV's is stupid & not the best place. They should be above the carriageway or in the middle would make more sense. I guess it was just done this way & the detail never thought of years ago or up until now.

We could easily think of improvements in many areas. So why doesn't it get thought about far enough ahead of changes we know are coming? We never think far enough ahead. We probably need fly over or fly under lanes to get around this road train getting off at a junction issue. The advantages to fully autonomous motorway driving for all vehicles is that the road train will make a gap for a vehicle requesting an exit.

There is much to think about & change probably much of it after I'm gone. I wish we would change things quicker. The rate of change for so many things is just too slow.

We know plastic bags are stupid, ridiculous & cause more problems than they are worth. Stop producing them & force change. It is the only way change will happen quick enough to make a real, lasting and effective difference to our society, environment & planet.

 

[Petrol Pete]

Maybe the goat is more important than you?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Without a doubt ! to them at least. I swore I would never do it but I ended up getting hire cars just so I could take my destiny into my own hands, not that of some taxi driver who believes everything (good or bad) that happens is "Gods will" thereby exonerating him from any blame when his poor driving kills me and him and leaves our wife and kids all alone.

 

[Petrol Pete]

I always look at the upside & if the road is clear ahead or clear enough that it warrants an overtake. If there are cars ahead not going any faster and/or junctions or roundabouts etc. soon then there is no point & I won't bother.

Most people don't have this further foresight tough & overtake only to gain very little if anything.

Sometimes it is worth the overtake sometimes not. Every case should be assessed on an individual basis.

The road train obscuring sings is very valid & real but this does happen anyway as the signs are in stupid places. To have them low down on the slowest part of the road to the nearside of big/high HGV's is stupid & not the best place. They should be above the carriageway or in the middle would make more sense. I guess it was just done this way & the detail never thought of years ago or up until now.

We could easily think of improvements in many areas. So why doesn't it get thought about far enough ahead of changes we know are coming? We never think far enough ahead. We probably need fly over or fly under lanes to get around this road train getting off at a junction issue. The advantages to fully autonomous motorway driving for all vehicles is that the road train will make a gap for a vehicle requesting an exit.

There is much to think about & change probably much of it after I'm gone. I wish we would change things quicker. The rate of change for so many things is just too slow.

We know plastic bags are stupid, ridiculous & cause more problems than they are worth. Stop producing them & force change. It is the only way change will happen quick enough to make a real, lasting and effective difference to our society, environment & planet.

Or put a tax on the plastic bags so the government can collect the money and invest in re cycling plants...no, hold on, the government do not collect the 5/10/15/20 pence tax on the bags as it would cost too much to administrate. The money goes straight into the pocket of the retailer. 5p 'tax' and 'bags for life' up to 20/30p. Why not just say what it is ? "buy this bag or carry your groceries home in a wicker basket fitted to the front of you Hovis bicycle" or better still in a few of those totally useless handle less brown paper bags we see in American films ! I spent a couple of months working in the USA before Christmas and believe me if you go into Wal-Mart and buy a single apple they will put it in a plastic carrier bag, not a 'movie style' brown paper bag in sight....I bought 100's home !!

 

[KeithJG]

Well I don't know where Gr1nch lives but tractor drivers don't pull over where I live, nor caravans lol.

I used to live in North Somerset and the joke was:

Have you heard the one about the Magic Tractor?

It turned into a field.......


Getting back to lorries seeing as i am in lorry country as i said before i notice on the Reg plate where they come from and you would be amazed at the low quality of driving from the Europeans.

I agree it would be better to allow drivers to overtake and give in but usually you don`t get the chance as they tell you what they are doing and not what they want to do?

In other words they just pull out quick with the blinker going they don`t sit and wait with the blinker on so you know how to react ......very dangerous because if you are alongside the cab they can`t see you!

 

[Deleted96908]

Agree. When working in 'North Africa' I could never understand why all and sundry drove their clapped out vehicles at silly (for the type and condition of said vehicle) speeds, making suicidal overtaking manoeuvres and taking chances of breath-taking stupidity just to stop 100 yards later to let someone on/off or untie the goat from the roof rack ? ...and when they got to work they all slowed down to less than walking pace. strange world.

I was in Egypt and Sudan for the best part of 5 years in the 80s and it never ceased to amaze me how crazy folks were - both with and without cars. Don't remember goats on roof racks though. Sheep in boots, yes

 

[brucemillar]

We have a chap around here who was reported to the Police for carrying his very large pet Collie Dog on the roof rack, of his People Carrier. The dog was secured by attaching his lead to the frame of the roof rack and would (it appeared) wander about unconcerned, on the roof of the car, as his master drove around the local lanes. The reporting to the Police happened, after he "forgot" the dog was up there and set of up the main dual carriageway at 70mph.

Strange but true.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

On the other hand, who's to blame for the hold up when a lorry pulls into lane 2 to let someone on to the carriageway and that person matches his speed and just sits there?

Definitely the lorry driver is to blame. As would the driver of any other vehicle be to blame when performing the so called courtesy. I know we've had this discussion before, but it really does bug me when people pull into the next lane to allow someone to enter from a slip road without giving a thought to the numerous possible negative consequences. I even hate it when I'm the one entering from a slip road because I will have been adjusting my speed to merge in front or behind the vehicle in lane 1, only to find it disappear from view in my door mirror meaning I have to slow down to safely look over my shoulder again to find out where the stupid sod has gone, thus reducing my chances of safely entering the motorway as intended. The lorry driver in lane 1 should do no more or less than the same as every driver should: stay in lane, maintain a steady speed and ensure there is enough space in front for a vehicle to merge in from the slip road.

 

[brucemillar]

It is a frequent issue with car drivers on Motorways and dual carriageways.

> Set your cruise control to speed xx.
> Watch as you rapidly start to overhaul the car ahead,
> Indicate right to overtake the car ahead.
> Watch as that car, you thought you were going to overtake, now attempts to match your speed.
> Marvel as the same car now rapidly pulls away into the distance.
> Oh Oh, You are now rapidly overhauling it again, and you have not altered your speed.
> Try accelerating and making the pass.
> Now watch as the same car accelerates, pulls out and overtakes you before pulling in front of you and slowing to a speed slower than when you started this dance.

I have no idea why people do this? They must be aware that they are speeding up (instead of remaining at a constant speed) and stopping you from passing, but they do it. I have seen cars go from 65 to 95 then back to 65 again, why? If they are unaware? They should not be on the road, it is 'driving without due care'.


I have also had the drivers that overtake me when I am sat on cruise, to slow in front of me, so I have to cancel cruise. At this point they will then speed up again. It's like they have an organ pedal and not an accelerator pedal.

 

[Deleted member 6183]

I've stopped using cruise control for this reason.

It's an unrewarding exercise to set your speed at a constant and expect everyone else to do the same.

Never going to happen.

 

[brucemillar]

I've stopped using cruise control for this reason.

It's an unrewarding exercise to set your speed at a constant and expect everyone else to do the same.

Never going to happen.

They should not be using my road. Why can't they stay at home when I am out and about?

 

[Deleted member 113659]

I've stopped using cruise control for this reason.

It's an unrewarding exercise to set your speed at a constant and expect everyone else to do the same.

Never going to happen.

Yep. Agreed. CC only really works if travelling at very off peak times or you set the speed very low (then you become the pest) A nice quite motorway and CC is great.

 

[st13phil]

I've stopped using cruise control for this reason.

It's an unrewarding exercise to set your speed at a constant and expect everyone else to do the same.

Never going to happen.

Solution: Distronic Plus. The radar-based cruise is simply fantastic and deals with the issue of those in front of you slowing and speeding up. Makes motorway driving much more relaxed and I really miss it when we use Angie's SLK55 for a long motorway haul.

 

[Deleted member 6183]

I tend to use the limiter a fair bit.

Useful in road works or speed cameras and set to a true 80mph on motorways for licence saving purposes.

I like the idea that I can ease off if needed.

CC worries me as I have used it on the AutoRoute but find myself changing position so my right foot isn't very close to the pedals which would hinder an emergency braking situation.

 

[Deleted member 113659]

Yep. Agreed. CC only really works if travelling at very off peak times or you set the speed very low (then you become the pest) A nice “quiet” motorway and CC is great.