Lost in translation

[Ted]

Iechi da (sp?)

 

[Chattonmill]

C'est une suggestion magnifique! Pah! a les roastes beefes avec la language Anglais est les idees increable de l'importance de Grande Bretagne. Vive la France!

Phillippe.

Va te Faire.......oh hang on that may not be classed as polite french

 

[prprandall51]

Va te Faire.......oh hang on that may not be classed as polite french

[Welsh accent] Araf, mate, Araf. [/Welsh accent]

(sorry, Welsh people. "Araf" is the only Welsh word we English motorists know!)

 

[andy_k]

Va te Faire.......oh hang on that may not be classed as polite french

what do you mean "may not" ?

 

[Chattonmill]

what do you mean "may not" ?

Ok.......would not

 

[st4]

Welsh is the language of Wales. It is part of their heritage and should be encouraged. If anyone does not like it I suggest they do not visit Wales.

So you've been to Cardiff and Newport, hardly enough to make you an expert on the subject. Welsh is spoken by almost 600,00 people in Wales, which is about 20% of the population for whom it is their first and everyday language and the number is increasing yearly. Now 20% is a minority figure but does that mean they have no rights?
.

Erm, which is it. It can't be the language of Wales if its a minority language

I understand your point that if some people speak it, its their right to speak it, just as its my right to agree or disagree with you, in whatever language I speak. 20% is a large figure, larger than I thought it would be and maybe the signs aren't such a bad idea, if that population don't speak english or have no understanding of english.

However I find it incredibly hard to believe that 20% of the Welsh population do not speak English and as such I percieve the exercise to be a slight misjudgement on how the Welsh assembly are spending their money. You've given one number to prove your own argument but not really revealed the whole picture, given your obvious extensive knowledge

 

[prprandall51]

Erm, which is it. It can't be the language of Wales if its a minority language

So, when Spanish becomes more widely spoken in the USA than English in a few years' time (as is widely expected to happen), will the "language of the USA" become Spanish, as per your logic? Perhaps all the road signs over there will be swapped out for Spanish ones - by your logic, this would seem to be the appropriate course of action...

 

[Shude]

So, when Spanish becomes more widely spoken in the USA than English in a few years' time (as is widely expected to happen), will the "language of the USA" become Spanish, as per your logic?

I thought it already was!

 

[st4]

So, when Spanish becomes more widely spoken in the USA than English in a few years' time (as is widely expected to happen), will the "language of the USA" become Spanish, as per your logic? Perhaps all the road signs over there will be swapped out for Spanish ones - by your logic, this would seem to be the appropriate course of action...

You've missed the point. Of the majority of Spanish speakers predicted in the USA how many can speak English and of the predicted minority of English speakers how many can speak Spanish? You might find that the main majority language of the USA thats understood will remain English.

Anyway thats by the by, the official language of the USA is English (with iffy spelling) and its the same in Wales as Wales is a part of the UK.

 

[oldcro]

Erm, which is it. It can't be the language of Wales if its a minority language

I understand your point that if some people speak it, its their right to speak it, just as its my right to agree or disagree with you, in whatever language I speak. 20% is a large figure, larger than I thought it would be and maybe the signs aren't such a bad idea, if that population don't speak english or have no understanding of english.

However I find it incredibly hard to believe that 20% of the Welsh population do not speak English and as such I percieve the exercise to be a slight misjudgement on how the Welsh assembly are spending their money. You've given one number to prove your own argument but not really revealed the whole picture, given your obvious extensive knowledge

I stated that 20% spoke Welsh as their 1st language. This implies there must be a second or more languages spoken. I have no idea what language you thought was their second language was and should have explained. So for your information English is the second language of 99.999% of Welsh speakers.

Your statement that Welsh cannot be the language of Wales if it's a minority language is utterly stupid and shows a lack of knowledg on the subject. There are two languages officially recognised in Wales and each has equal rights. For example council business and courts can be conducted in English, Welsh or both depending on those involved.

Your right to agree or disagree with me is beyond dispute, but I do question your right tell the Welsh what they can or cannot put on their road signs. The signs conform to UK and European road sign regulations so do not present a driving hazard to UK motorists. The Scottish, English, Welsh and Northern Irish governments have the right to spend their funds as they choose depending on the wishes of their people, and nobody else.

By the way BBC2 show two hours of Gaelic programmes every thursday evening for the benefit and enjoyment of Scots Gaelic speakers, don't miss it.

 

[ms500]

Your statement that Welsh cannot be the language of Wales if it's a minority language

Welsh is not 'the language of Wales', that's a rediculous thing to say. English is the language of the United Kingdom, and therefore Wales aswell.

The signs conform to UK and European road sign regulations so do not present a driving hazard to UK motorists.

I believe some have started popping up in Welsh only, which is way out of order and definitely dangerous and foolhardy.

I can just see it now; they change the signs at level crossings into Welsh, some poor family doesn't understand it and gets minced by a train. All because of Welsh politicians' bleary-eyed 'local patriotism'.

The Scottish, English, Welsh and Northern Irish governments have the right to spend their funds as they choose depending on the wishes of their people, and nobody else.

I wasn't aware of an 'English' government?

The bold bit is why you're wrong, Wales is economocially unproductive and takes more from the UK treasury to fund its' socialist schemes than it gives, therefore it is subsidised by taxpayers in England.

From what I understand, Wales has an assembly, not a 'government', and it didn't even have that until 1999. It's only power is to handle the administration of local issues.

 

[st4]

I stated that 20% spoke Welsh as their 1st language. This implies there must be a second or more languages spoken. I have no idea what language you thought was their second language was and should have explained. So for your information English is the second language of 99.999% of Welsh speakers.

So virtually all the Welsh population can understand English. The signs in Welsh aren't therefore really neccessary and therefore a waste of money or am I missing something. You need to work out how many people in wales can't understand signs in English, and if this is is virtually nil, you need to ask yourself what possible benefit the signs will bring. Road signs are a utilitarian object, and if the present system fufills its objective what benefit will the new ones bring. If you believe the old Welsh language needs to be promoted, their must be more culturally enriching ways in doing so than the use of road signs.

Your statement that Welsh cannot be the language of Wales if it's a minority language is utterly stupid and shows a lack of knowledge on the subject. There are two languages officially recognised in Wales and each has equal rights. For example council business and courts can be conducted in English, Welsh or both depending on those involved.

Your right to agree or disagree with me is beyond dispute, but I do question your right tell the Welsh what they can or cannot put on their road signs. The signs conform to UK and European road sign regulations so do not present a driving hazard to UK motorists. The Scottish, English, Welsh and Northern Irish governments have the right to spend their funds as they choose depending on the wishes of their people, and nobody else.
.

Is this the wish of the Welsh people then maybe fair enough, or is it the product of a "think tank" with people looking to spend public money. The Welsh are a part of the UK, and the only language of the UK is English. My point is therefore not stupid.

Its interesting (as it reveals a lot more about what you think than you suspect) that you mention an English government when there is no such thing. Westminister is the government of the UK (which funnily enough includes Wales, Scotland and NI). Scotland, Wales and NI also have governments (for reasons unknown to me) that are subordinate to Westminster.

In the context of this thread your comment that "Welsh is the language of Wales" "English government" says a lot to me. I suspect you don't like the fact that Scotland, Wales etc is subordinate to that government and from that I can see you have an "outlook" that starkly contrasts with my own, hence our complete and utter disagreement over this matter.

 

[Dryce]

Its interesting (as it reveals a lot more about what you think than you suspect) that you mention an English government when there is no such thing. Westminister is the government of the UK (which funnily enough includes Wales, Scotland and NI). Scotland, Wales and NI also have governments (for reasons unknown to me) that are subordinate to Westminster.

There's a mindset issue that many of the English just don't get in that English/England and British/UK are not quite the same thing.

The Scottish and Welsh devolution thing doesn't sit well with regard to all this because it seems to reinforce that UK government is English government. This should never have been allowed without at least putting the idea of several large English regional assemblies to a referendum.

Now if you voted me in as Prime Minister I would reorganise the UK to make Westminster the base of an English Executive and then introduce a new UK government based at York. And I'd start moving UK government departments and ministries and disperse them around the UK and place the ones that needed to be closest to government near York.

 

[Pug]

MS500, Your knowledge of the extent of Welsh as an everyday language is obviously very extensive. From this I assume you have either lived in Wales all your life, or travelled extensively throughout Wales.

Could you recommend some areas or villages where Welsh is frequently heard as I would like to visit and hear the language spoken. I plan to drive from North to South Wales so your local knowledge will assist my route planning. Do you speak any Welsh yourself by the way?

Try going to any small town post office... I was in the queue once, waiting to be served and all the other customers were conversing in English.
When I got to the counter and spoke in an English accent, they all switched to Welsh, as if I'd thrown a switch.