Low wide tyres and snow

[whitenemesis]

I take it thats a no ? pity as they look interesting

Snow socks look like they could be useful if caught out. Not sure they are really a substitute for winter tyres

 

[Birdman]

My sister wears autosocks. She lives in the foot-hills of the East Pyrenees. In a house in case you ask. She swears by socks. Reason: snowed up roads are an occasional experience in France because of the excellently equipped highway authorities and in heavy snowfalls you stay off the roads to avoid leaving them entirely - at least you do in the Pyrenees. So socks get you out of trouble - like getting stuck while leaving your parking space - while complying with the law. And they can be kept in the car throughout the year and taken out only if needed.

Studs are safe only on bedded-down snow and ice and many motorists won't use them because cleared roads become skating rinks when on studded tyres. Plus, they're illegal except on snow/ice (all over Europe!!!??).

 

[popuptoaster]

ps ALL Swedish cars are FWD or 4wd

That proves nothing, Volvos were RWD for years and Germany has some very snowy areas and still make RWD cars, manufacturers dont make FWD cars for extra traction in the snow, thats what 4x4 is for, they mke fwd cars because they are cheaper and better packaged for interior space.

I still say FWD is only better because it feels safer and is easier to control NOT because it provides any extra traction, a hillman imp will murder a mini on the slippy stuff as will a beetle, both of which have the engine over the driven wheels but at the other end.

 

[Birdman]

I still say FWD is only better because it feels safer and is easier to control NOT because it provides any extra traction, a hillman imp will murder a mini on the slippy stuff as will a beetle, both of which have the engine over the driven wheels but at the other end.

The amazing success of the original Mini in European winter rallying was attributed by its drivers to front wheel drive as it left the more powerful RWD cars standing including Porsches.

This could also be to do with the 'snowplough' effect on front wheels of using RWD in snow - ie. if the front wheels are being pushed from a point ten feet behind them, rather than pulled around bends by their own torque, the car prefers to go straight on. In any event, FWD drivers did well until the Audi Quattro etc appeared on the scene IIRC.

 

[Rory]

Shirley that would make them illegal.

If you used them at a temp below manufacturer's specs then both your insurer and the law would be down on you like a ton of bricks if anythig untoward happened.

I haven't seen any stickers on my tyres saying "Only for use in ambient temperatures of 8C or above".

They are illegal in some places, and, as others have pointed out, while not specifically illegal in Germany you will get into trouble with both Police and your insurance if you have a crash and the car isn't on winter tyres.

In the UK, although it has been unusually cold this winter, we generally don't get enough days of 7C or below to make it worthwhile. Few people have the ability store spare sets of wheels and tyres (many epople would need to store several sets) and garages aren't equipped to do this on any scale. It's like the snow-clearing arguments - we could gear up to cope with it, but it happens so infrequently as to be not worthwhile.

 

[Rory]

Snow socks look like they could be useful if caught out. Not sure they are really a substitute for winter tyres

I bought a pair for my car immediately I got it - I was brought up on RWD drive cars, then switched to FWD. There's no doubt in my mind that the older FWD cars (like original Fiesta etc) were very easy to drive in snow, but newer, bigger, FWD cars don't seem do good, probably due to wider tyres.

Never driven my Merc is snow and I really dont want to either - I watched a news clip of one in traffic and the car just went sideways everytime it tried to move off.

Best I can gather about SnowSocks is that they work well, but are not quite so easy as you might imagine to fit. There are a couple of videos kicking around of them being used.

 

[whitenemesis]

I bought a pair for my car immediately I got it - I was brought up on RWD drive cars, then switched to FWD. There's no doubt in my mind that the older FWD cars (like original Fiesta etc) were very easy to drive in snow, but newer, bigger, FWD cars don't seem do good, probably due to wider tyres.

Never driven my Merc is snow and I really dont want to either - I watched a news clip of one in traffic and the car just went sideways everytime it tried to move off.

Best I can gather about SnowSocks is that they work well, but are not quite so easy as you might imagine to fit. There are a couple of videos kicking around of them being used.

Yes, I checked out the vid on the manufacturer's website. Cleverly skipped the vital part on how to get the lower part around the wheel!!

 

[Uberwagon]

That proves nothing, Volvos were RWD for years and Germany has some very snowy areas and still make RWD cars, manufacturers dont make FWD cars for extra traction in the snow, thats what 4x4 is for, they mke fwd cars because they are cheaper and better packaged for interior space.

I still say FWD is only better because it feels safer and is easier to control NOT because it provides any extra traction, a hillman imp will murder a mini on the slippy stuff as will a beetle, both of which have the engine over the driven wheels but at the other end.

In Bergen the guys I was working with all got out the winter snotter FWD cars when it snowed heavily. They left the winter tyred RWD cars at home.

Dave!

 

[big x]

I still say FWD is only better because it feels safer and is easier to control NOT because it provides any extra traction, a hillman imp will murder a mini on the slippy stuff as will a beetle, both of which have the engine over the driven wheels but at the other end.

Both my cars have 16" wheels with the same make of tyres. Both 6 cylinders with similar torque. This morning the BMW managed all of 10 feet before coming to a halt on the slight incline in the narrow lane outside my house.
I switched to the Peugeot and there was no problem.
In second gear both cars had the wheels spinning but only the FWD found traction.
Reducing tyre pressure and adding weight to the boot made little difference to the BMW.

 

[verytalldave]

My old Morris 1100 would climb snow covered hills most others couldnt look at.
I wish I still had one on a day like yesterday.

 

[popuptoaster]

The amazing success of the original Mini in European winter rallying was attributed by its drivers to front wheel drive as it left the more powerful RWD cars standing including Porsches.

This could also be to do with the 'snowplough' effect on front wheels of using RWD in snow - ie. if the front wheels are being pushed from a point ten feet behind them, rather than pulled around bends by their own torque, the car prefers to go straight on. In any event, FWD drivers did well until the Audi Quattro etc appeared on the scene IIRC.

There are a lot of myths about the mini's successes in the snow, there were many contributing factors other than FWD, for instance its power to weight ratio was much better than many of its rivals, and it could out handle a lot of them in the dry as well, I've driven minis in the snow and if you dont have to worry about other traffic and can keep it going fast its not a bad car, if you keep your foot on the floor it will go straight whatever you do with the steering wheel, you have to lift of the gas and as the wheels stop spinning they act like rudders and steer the car but you need to be carrying enough speed to make that work and the ground clearance is abysmal.

 

[grober]

I run a couple of winter/all weather tyres on the rear of my car all year round. Over the years I have tried Vredestein Wintracs, Nokian WR's and currently Michelin Pilot Premacy Alpins. The Nokians probably had the best snow/ice grip but were slightly noisy at first like the Vredesteins. Since I put on the Premacys I have noticed no increase in road noise but much improved grip in snow and ice. Apart from driving a little more carefully on wet roundabouts their performance is quite satisfactory all year round. They make a huge difference to traction in winter conditions i.e moving forwards rather sideways! or halted with wheels spinning. They were all 185or195 /65/R 15 H or V rated. I can hand on heart say you run this type of tyre all year round if you wish got 20,000 plus from them all excepting the latest new ones which are fairly new. For snow tyres narrow and high aspect are definitely the way to go.

 

[Subyland]

I completely agree with the fact that FWD have got better grip than RWD, by the simple fact that there is more weight on the front axle due to the engine. Which were the vehicles most struggling yesterday? MB, BMW, and other RWD vehicles such as some Transit vans. Obviously FWD cars were not at ease either but generally tend to fare better, unless carrying heavy weight in the back.
I have run all of my cars with two sets of wheels (summer and winter) for the last 10 years and, with the exception of the cost of the steel rims, I have not spend more than I would if I only had one set of tyres.

 

[hygt2]

You can get traction if you let the tyre pressure drop. Most neighbours and friends, who cannot get their cars out of the car park / local side streets with their 4x4, were not letting any air out of the tyres. Even those who did let air out didn't let out enough air.

I was stuck within one car length of my parking space on Monday morning with 6 inches of snow and ice underneath. I let my tyre pressure down from 39psi (high speed / high load setting - needed 3 weeks ago before I went away) down to 10 psi and raise the car on airmatic and I managed to move off without wheelspin.

Most people I saw letting air out were only down on 25 psi when I checked and that was nowhere low enough to get unstuck.

 

[big x]

It's worth pointing out that you should switch the traction control off for more low speed traction when starting.The BMW handbook confirms this..

 

[Rory]

Yes, I checked out the vid on the manufacturer's website. Cleverly skipped the vital part on how to get the lower part around the wheel!!

Have you seen this one? It jumps a bit, but without seeing the video I might not have thought about rolling backwards!
http://videos.snowchains.co.uk/videos/weisssock.html

 

[Birdman]

Saab did rather well in rallying too, with remarkable success on loosely surfaced forest tracks and snow. Mind you, those cars went sideways much of the time and I wouldn't want to emulate that driving style on local roads.

Some of my family were close to most of the MG competitions department in Abingdon which prepared the MGs, Austin-Healeys & Minis (the principal actors then were Marcus Chambers and Douggie Watts) and the success of the Mini took everyone by complete surprise. They were unprepared for the way it zapped the opposition in the winter rallying circuit. But not at other times of year! It lacked the engine capacity to deal with the more powerful traditionally designed vehicles on dry roads.

 

[Dryce]

"Temperatures below 7ºC are experienced throughout the UK between October and March. The air temperature is a crucial factor in your tyres’ ability to perform. When the temperature drops below 7ºC the rubber in your tyres will begin to harden and give you less grip."

That's general advice. Not the same as sticking a notice on the tyre saying only use in ambient conditions above 7 deg C.

So as usual Conti want to sell us winter tyres so they stick some general advice in about why they're better but at the same time *don't* specify that their normal/summer tyres are restricted to use only above certain ambients.

If summer tyres don't work at 7 deg then we're screwed in the northern parts of the UK simply because the temerature ranges mean you can easily encounter <7 deg C ambient in spring and autumn - esp. at night.

 

[crockers]

Does anyone use autosocks/snowsocks as crockers mentions?

I have a pair in the boot - bought for a trip to Germany Dec 07. Haven't used them yet as Mrs C has a nice Honda CRV with new tyres on....

Shirley that would make them illegal.

.

OK - hands up ... WHO IS SHIRLEY ??

 

[Apial]

unquote