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M104 3.6 AMG documents

megdan

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Joined
Feb 24, 2017
Messages
6
Car
190e
Hi everybody,

I wonder If anybody can give me a clue how to proceed with a issue i have with the documents of my 3.6 AMG engine.

A few years ago (6) I bought from a UK based breaker (by EBay) a M104 engine for my track w201.
Now I am retiring the engine from track usage and I wonder is there any procedure of aquirring some document for the engine?

I have the car VIN and ofcourse the engine number. Can I put some request to officials for some document?

Every info will be much appreciated, thank you in advance.
 
If this helps....
To the best of my knowledge a receipt from the vendor authenticates the engine with VOSA - or at least implies it isn't stolen.
The engine number should be cross referencible(?) with the vehicle it was originally fitted in. The relevance of that is it has 'previously formed part of a complete and road registered vehicle'. That would obviate a current reg plate being issued in an IVA test (Q plate or age related only).
If your plan is to sell the engine as replacement for the same (like for like) then VOSA wont care. If it is destined for a vehicle such that VOSA will have to be informed of a 'change of cubic capacity', VOSA may enquire further and the minimum ask is for the vendor's receipt.
 
If this helps....
To the best of my knowledge a receipt from the vendor authenticates the engine with VOSA - or at least implies it isn't stolen.
The engine number should be cross referencible(?) with the vehicle it was originally fitted in. The relevance of that is it has 'previously formed part of a complete and road registered vehicle'. That would obviate a current reg plate being issued in an IVA test (Q plate or age related only).
If your plan is to sell the engine as replacement for the same (like for like) then VOSA wont care. If it is destined for a vehicle such that VOSA will have to be informed of a 'change of cubic capacity', VOSA may enquire further and the minimum ask is for the vendor's receipt.
Ok maybe I didn't provide all the info .... I am not from UK nor the car is in UK... in my country the engine must be accompanied by some kind of official document from the country of origin with number of the engine displacement and power.
So generally I am looking for a way in UK to make a request to some instution so they can send me some kind of official document for the car with this VIN (and engine number) was registered, scrapped etc.

I know it is a long shot but I just received the MLS gasket from Hedgehog and would like to make one cool road legal 190e with 3.6 amg and getrag dogleg.
 
If we parallel your intention (3.6 AMG into 190 which would have had 2.6 litre as largest factory fitment) with what a friend experienced when he replaced the 600cc engine in a smart fortwo with an 1100cc Honda Blackbird engine, it might give an idea of what to expect in the UK when you return the 190e's V5 to VOSA because of 'change of engine'.
VOSA will reply with a three option list of what to do. The most extreme demand is submit the car for IVA (individual vehicle approval) testing - which is better avoided as it will cost circa £500 and may end up with a Q plate. Of the other two, one is a request for a receipt of sale for the engine and a letter bearing a bona-fide garage's letter heading stating the conversion has been done to a safe standard. That is the least onerous option (I cannot remember the other option but it is available online via VOSA's IVA websites).

My friend obtained the 'letter' from his local garage and the receipt from the purchase of the motorcycle from which he removed the engine sufficed for the engine's receipt though there is the possibility of 'selling the engine to AN Other and buying it back with a current sales receipt'. Obviously that is more convincing if issued from a trader.

To show how muddled it is though - my friend's next VED fee for the car was as per a car up to 1550cc. The following year it reverted to the smart's homologated £30 based on CO2. His car when presented for MOT passes without any emissions check (an IVA test involves stringent emissions testing), airbags, ABS and despite the chassis/shell having been cut (normally a driver toward an IVA test). Clear as mud then. You probably need to interrogate the VOSA websites looking for 'radically modified vehicles'.

FWIW, I am in a similar predicament in that I intend building a car and submitting it for IVA testing but don't have a receipt for the R1 engine I intend using (bought via eBay 6 years ago - sound familiar?)
 
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Try putting your VIN in here Mercedes-Benz VIN Decoder
This gets a build card for the car but I don't know how far back it goes.
If you can give me the Engine, VIN and Registration numbers I could ferret around a couple of UK govt websites for you.
 
You should contact AMG directly with the chassis and engine numbers- they will have records of all the engines they have built. There are AMG engine clones out there which may be technically the same -- bore/stroke i.e. crank throw and pistons are the key components here but actually built by someone else
 
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@Bellow officially the biggest engine in w201 is the 3.2 AMG based on M103. Brabus however did sold 3.6 M103 based w201's. But this is not this is not the case now.

@Teego I checked the VIN decoder but the info there is not what I am looking for. Please give the sites so I can check for info - I don't have car number plates .
@grober I did this when changed the headgasket it is genuine AMG engine the VIN also corresponds to engine number.

the thing is that local police need some registration document (which is stupid) but I basically need some official document from UK that this engine number was from a registered car.:(
 
@Bellow officially the biggest engine in w201 is the 3.2 AMG based on M103. Brabus however did sold 3.6 M103 based w201's. But this is not this is not the case now.

In which case, maybe your plight is easier. In the case I gave, not only did the engine capacity change, but the architecture of the engine and transmission did also - requiring different mountings etc. In your case, it's almost a straight drop in - same mounts etc, and with the precedent of it already having been done by Mercedes.

the thing is that local police need some registration document (which is stupid) but I basically need some official document from UK that this engine number was from a registered car.:(

Confused as to geography here. Everything you intend doing will be in the UK - yes?
Not comprehending why the police are involved - this should be VOSA's concern and no one else's.
 
Assume from the initial post that the engine is being used in another country where regulations are different. The official U.K. Documents would be acceptable to the local police who I are assume are checking that the engine has been acquired legally and meets international ( or national ) specs re.pollution etc.
Used to live in Tunisia for part of the year and you needed to produce similar documents if you wanted to transplant car engines or had an outboard engine on your boat, basically to try and prevent smuggled ( often stolen ) engines being used . Surprisingly they also had stringent annual equivalent to MOT test, my 4x4 had to be tested every six months once it was 10 years old, full emissions test and rolling road to test brake efficiency etc., all fully computerised so couldn't be sorted by payment via backhanders.
 
"I am not from UK nor the car is in UK"

I see the problem you have. Good luck finding what you need. The datacard (if they were the same that long ago) will tell you when the car came out of the factory and when it was delivered in the UK. If you have that information, I would try contacting MB UK first to see if they could help. If you could find out the original registration, VOSA might be able to provide something in writing.
 
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@Smart320 you are absolutely right!

@grober pls send me in private an email to send you the numbers (unfortunately I can not send private messages yet).

@E55BOF Original registration is very hard to find I will try dig some old backups of pictures... but it is long process.
 
on the second thought here are the numbers I've got:
vin.png
Sorry that it is an image but really don't trust indexing privacy on any websites.
 
Vehicle identification number (VIN):
WDB2020282F422590
Vehicle model:
C 36 AMG
Order number:
0653795143
Production number:
0384203
Production plant:
P0670
Shipment date:
09.05.96
EC approval number:
e1*92/53*0001*10
EC approval date:
06.10.95
Codes
  • 056
  • 201A
  • 212
  • 221
  • 222
  • 240
  • 243
  • 341
  • 420
  • 440
  • 461
  • 512
  • 531
  • 570
  • 572U
  • 580
  • 584
  • 593
  • 600
  • 613
  • 654
  • 668
  • 673
  • 772
  • 774
  • 776
  • 806
  • 833
  • 910
  • 956
  • 957
  • 984
  • 572
 
@grober thank you for the info I all ready have that
The question is how can I get info about the current/previous state of this car in UK. Can I get some papers that it was once registered ? - basically what @Smart320 described in post10 is what a need but it must a copy of some original registration document from UK authority/government.
 
I can only suggest you contact the DVLA directly explaining the situation. With the vin number they should be able to furnish you with some documentation concerning the vehicles original UK registration. Almost certainly there will some sort of charge involved.
 
I think your registration number is N???CBD. This means it was registered in Northampton, England.
This is the local dealer which may have supplied your car.
https://www.sytner.co.uk/mercedes-benz/dealer-locator/mercedes-benz-of-northampton/
Here is the original build card for your car which links engine number to vin and shows that it was ordered for Great Britain. It was despatch from the factory on 9 May 1996.

WDB2020282F422590
www.DataMB.com 1
Mercedes-Benz VIN Decoder
1996 MERCEDES-BENZ C36 (202.028)
General Data
FIN WDB2020282F422590
Model C36
Engine 104941 22 077716
Transmission 722328 04 280687
Order Number 0 6 537 95143
Order Location GREAT BRITAIN
Interior LEATHER - BLACK/ANTHRACITE (201A)
Paint 1 RUBY METALLIC (572U)
Delivery Date 1996-05-09
Approx. Build Date 1996-04
Code Description
056 W 202 AEJ. 96/1
200A LEATHER
212 ELECTRONIC TRACTION SYSTEM (ETS)
221 LEFT FRONT SEAT, ELECTRICALLY ADJUSTABLE
222 RIGHT FRONT SEAT, ELECTRICALLY ADJUSTABLE
240 OUTSIDE TEMPERATURE INDICATOR
243 SPORTS SEATS, FRONT AND REAR
341 ADDITIONAL BLINKER LAMPS
420 AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION 4-GEAR
440 TEMPOMAT (CRUISE CONTROL)
461 INSTRUMENT WITH MILES IND. AND ENGLISH LEGEND
512 RADIO MB SPECIAL WITH TRAFFIC NEWS DECODER (VK), WITH RDS
531 AUTOMATIC ANTENNA
570 FOLDING ARMREST, FRONT
580 AIR CONDITIONER
584 ELECTRIC WINDOW LIFTERS (FRONT AND REAR DOORS)
593 HEAT-INSULATING GLASS, ALL-AROUND, HEATED REAR WINDOW PANE (SINGLE-SHEET
SAFETY GLASS), BAND FILTER
600 HEADLAMP WIPER/WASHER
613 HEADLAMP LEFT-HAND TRAFFIC
654 SPORTS CHASSIS WITH AMG L.A.WHLS, 5-HOLE
668 MODE OF PACKING VE III WITH STYROPOR BUMPER RAILS
673 HIGH-CAPACITY BATTERY
772 AMG STYLING PACKAGE - FRONT SPOILER, SIDE SKIRTS AND REAR APRON
774 SHELL MODIFICATION FOR AMG-WHEELS
776 WHEEL COVERING FOR AMG 17-WHEELS (ONLY EXPORT)
806 CHANGE OF MODEL YEAR, THE LAST FIGURE SHOWING THE NEW MODEL YEAR
833 ADDITIONAL PARTS FOR GREAT BRITAIN VEHICLE VERSION
910 DYNAMO WITH HIGHER CAPACITY (FFO)
956 EQUIPMENT PACKAGE SPORT
957 AMG - ENGENEERING PACKAGE
984 COC DOC. DELETION OF VEHICLE REGISTRATION DOC

Tou can also make an enquiry to the DVLA in GB. Here is the link.
https://assets.publishing.service.g...ndividual-for-information-about-a-vehicle.pdf

Good Luck
 
Northampton registration could also mean it was first registered by MB UK - they used the same VRO in those days.
 

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