M156 down on power

[Celicasaur]

Hi folks,

Anybody here experience low power output from their 6.2 motors and then managed to restore it somehow?

My car is a 2010 E63 with kleemann cams and eurocharged v5 custom tune but only makes 488hp. The guys at eurocharged did their best but I guess that's all the motor can output right now.

Any ideas? Mileage on the motor is 79k. Was serviced last March (so yeah, oil/filter is now due and I'm going to book it in for next week).

I know that in some cases, burnt oil from the pcv system has been shown to burn on the inlet ports of the heads and intake manifold, effectively chocking airflow. I guess a carbon/terraclean might be worth a shot, but I doubt it'll restore around 30-40hp.

 

[sirius9]

Cams doesn't usually change much unless headers are changed as well.
I suspect the manifold is restricting the outflow...

 

[Alex]

Hi folks,

Anybody here experience low power output from their 6.2 motors and then managed to restore it somehow?

My car is a 2010 E63 with kleemann cams and eurocharged v5 custom tune but only makes 488hp. The guys at eurocharged did their best but I guess that's all the motor can output right now.

Any ideas? Mileage on the motor is 79k. Was serviced last March (so yeah, oil/filter is now due and I'm going to book it in for next week).

I know that in some cases, burnt oil from the pcv system has been shown to burn on the inlet ports of the heads and intake manifold, effectively chocking airflow. I guess a carbon/terraclean might be worth a shot, but I doubt it'll restore around 30-40hp.

Of course you can restore. Take the cams off, reset the ECU and see how it compares.

Rolling road is just a number. Have you done quarter mile runs or vmax? How does the car feel with cams and ECU vs. standard?

 

[MC63CLK]

Hi folks, Anybody here experience low power output from their 6.2 motors and then managed to restore it somehow? My car is a 2010 E63 with kleemann cams and eurocharged v5 custom tune but only makes 488hp. The guys at eurocharged did their best but I guess that's all the motor can output right now. Any ideas? Mileage on the motor is 79k. Was serviced last March (so yeah, oil/filter is now due and I'm going to book it in for next week). I know that in some cases, burnt oil from the pcv system has been shown to burn on the inlet ports of the heads and intake manifold, effectively chocking airflow. I guess a carbon/terraclean might be worth a shot, but I doubt it'll restore around 30-40hp.

Are you still happy with it or have you fallen out of love size ( numbers ) isn't everything ?

 

[merc85]

All dyno's vary, take it to another and it may say you have more.

 

[Celicasaur]

Sarcasm appreciated guys

I suppose refitting the stock cams is potentially an option to verify if there really is missing power up top vs before the cam install. Bit of a PITA, but it's an option.

For what it's worth, while the low numbers are unsettling, I'm more concerned with how it feels overall. It has improved since the first day I drove it...Lord only knows why that is, or it's denial/placebo, but it does feel quite beefy in the mid-range. Butt-dyno just tells me that the top end of the powerband is a little flat.

I'll report back in a couple of weeks or so after a brief re-tune on the dyno to see if that helps.

For reference the Terraclean treatment doesn't appear to have made any difference to the motor. It was carried out in conjunction with an intake treatment very much like Sea Foam which sips the additive in through a vacuum hose. I guess it was clean in the first place then, or the treatment just isn't powerful enough to remove burnt on deposits (if any) - the only way to verify will be to physically check when I fit my 82mm throttle bodies soon.

My gut instinct tells me that with time invested in VVT tuning, the top end will pull better. Worst comes to worst, I'll just buy Kleemann's map.

For what it's worth, a set of long tubes is on the way to London, so I'll have those fitted soon too which might help the cams to do their thing, or maybe not - who knows.

 

[Lee C63]

40 BHP is a lot to be missing.....
Why you changing the throttle bodies??

Personally I would be looking for the reason it's down on power before installing the long tube headers.

Have you had compression tests carried out?
A 2010 would be in the range for potential snapped head bolt.

 

[developer]

Have you had it on STAR to see if there's anything untoward?

 

[Celicasaur]

I'm fitting bigger throttle bodies because I love razor sharp 'on-off' style throttle response from fully built N/A motors (I come from a strong B16, K20 and 2ZZ background) - I do a lot of country road driving at night etc

Eeeek, I'd hate to think if there's an issue with the bottom end/compression etc ...it's a fair shout though. Perhaps I'll order a tester for this week and get some numbers. For what it's worth, I've seen first-hand myself that my engine already has the revised headbolts, so I'd like to hope that they're not the issue.


My MB service is due in a fortnight so I'll ask them to check for any error codes etc. One part of me is wondering if the VVT units have either failed, or aren't rotating quickly enough and to their full range that has been instructed by the ECU tune. I wonder if that's something they will be able to find out...

 

[Alex]

Not sure who was being sarcastic - I certainly wasn't. A camshaft swap is an evening job, you're not touching the heads after all. This and compression & leak tests would be how I'd tackle it. Your idea of upgrading the throttle bodies sounds interesting. Do you plan to modify the air intake as well?

 

[Celicasaur]

Yep

I've got an intake/airbox spacer that will help lift the filter (Green filter, mesh lined and thin like K&N) out of the flow path from the air feed just as it approaches the filter. It might well not do anything, but I figure it's worth trying something physically different in the design, rather than a carbon airbox that's shaped the same as stock (Carbonio) or an airbox that is way more than i could afford (Renntech). I'll probably fit it after my Service B in a couple of weeks and then I'll fit the throttle bodies.

 

[vealige]

Service, check the plugs and replace if they are not looking their best. Wack a bottle of Red x through.

A diagnostic might show something amiss be interesting to see if it does.

 

[Celicasaur]

For the sake of updating the thread and future reference, I've had the following done without any real notable difference:

MB service - oil change
Running the latest firmware
Diagnostic showing great health of all sensors and camgears (at least at idle)
Replaced PCV/breather pipe
Removed/cleaned intake manifold
Replaced intake manifold gaskets
Inspected plugs - all showing a great AFR mixture and healthy engine

My next move is to either take a punt on replacing the camgears (on the off chance that they're not retarding/advancing to their full range at high rpm) or just leave it and accept that the car is rubbish. At ~£1500, it's one helluva punt to take though, so I'm not sure how brave I"m feeling after all that I've spent so far this year.

Longtubes and 82mm TB's waiting to go on as well, but I refuse to fit them until this issue is sorted.

A friend of mine has these on his C63 and his car is handsomely more faster and forceful up top. Hmmm....

 

[Alex]

It may be cheaper to send your ECU to Kleemann in Denmark and get it remapped there.

 

[Flash]

Sounds like a remap issue to me.

 

[developer]

Of course you can restore. Take the cams off, reset the ECU and see how it compares.

This - whilst not particularly cost effective, there are plenty of dyno'd standard cars to compare the output against.

Once sorted, add the cams and tune back into the mix.

You need a good baseline to begin with IMO.

 

[Osgee]

I'm having similar issues with my C63, it made a healthy 560 with supporting modifications, - headers, no cats, V5 map and drop in filters.

Runs and drives fine, but not had a chance to run against other C63s.

However it now only makes 503bhp give or take a few bhp on two separate Dyno Dynamics Dynos! Driving me nuts! No EML and no obvious faults where has my 50bhp gone!

Could it be a fuel pump issue ? Bad fuel filter?

 

[MC63CLK]

For the sake of updating the thread and future reference, I've had the following done without any real notable difference: MB service - oil change Running the latest firmware Diagnostic showing great health of all sensors and camgears (at least at idle) Replaced PCV/breather pipe Removed/cleaned intake manifold Replaced intake manifold gaskets Inspected plugs - all showing a great AFR mixture and healthy engine My next move is to either take a punt on replacing the camgears (on the off chance that they're not retarding/advancing to their full range at high rpm) or just leave it and accept that the car is rubbish. At ~£1500, it's one helluva punt to take though, so I'm not sure how brave I"m feeling after all that I've spent so far this year. Longtubes and 82mm TB's waiting to go on as well, but I refuse to fit them until this issue is sorted. A friend of mine has these on his C63 and his car is handsomely more faster and forceful up top. Hmmm....

Sell it bud it's a lemon

 

[Alex]

I'm having similar issues with my C63, it made a healthy 560 with supporting modifications, - headers, no cats, V5 map and drop in filters.

Runs and drives fine, but not had a chance to run against other C63s.

However it now only makes 503bhp give or take a few bhp on two separate Dyno Dynamics Dynos! Driving me nuts! No EML and no obvious faults where has my 50bhp gone!

Could it be a fuel pump issue ? Bad fuel filter?

Try the original Dyno?

 

[Celicasaur]

Aaaaaaand just to confuse matters even more. Yesterday, for some bizarre reason, my car felt noticeably more forceful up top and i was getting that feeling of acceleration surge towards the top of 2nd and 3rd gear. I'm not sure if the ecu needed a few days to adapt after the work that was done last weekend, but nevertheless I've been in touch with my local Eurocharged (Watford) to see when they can fit me in for some dyno time and a slight retune if necessary. I could be totally wrong of course. But fingers crossed.