oldguy57
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Ah that's very interesting, I wasn't aware and explains why the protesters couldn't just be carted away.
M25 junctions banned - including Heathrow T4 exit
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What distinguishes a legitimate demonstration from an illegitimate one? Genuine question.
EDIT: found this:
'Britain’s most senior judges said it was right to acquit a group of protesters who blockaded the Defence and Security Equipment International (DSEI) arms fair in London in 2017.
“There should be a certain degree of tolerance to disruption to ordinary life, including disruption of traffic, caused by the exercise of the right to freedom of expression or freedom of peaceful assembly,” the majority ruling added.
“There must be an assessment of the facts in each individual case to determine whether the interference with article 10 or article 11 rights was ‘necessary in a democratic society’.” '
That's not exactly carte blanche for protesters to block roads at will, and not exactly an excuse for the police to let them do it unhindered.
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chic0821
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That's not exactly carte blanche for protesters to block roads at will, and not exactly an excuse for the police to let them do it unhindered.
That's what I said way back in quote #49
That's what I said way back in quote #49
Darrell
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‘The majority ruling’
That’ll be until one of them gets caught in a big traffic jam then.
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Haha, yes indeed.
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I have no idea, I'm not one of the justices mores the pity.
ChipChop
MB Enthusiast
Legitimate demonstration - protesting the arms industry
Illegitimate demonstration - home insulation protest organised by Extinction Rebellions Roger Hallam, a failed farmer who blames his inability to grow crops in Wales on climate change, and says whenever he looks up at the sky he sees only death.
The Welsh farmer who became the mastermind of Extinction Rebellion
Extinction Rebellion co-founder Roger Hallam is currently in custody accused of conspiring to cause a public nuisance
www.walesonline.co.uk
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Fixed that for you.
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I thing it's a fine legal point.
Freedom-of-speech is more of a guiding principle rather than an American-style constitution amendment that trupms all other laws.
The CPS case was probably based on the fact that the protesters broke the law, and freedom-of-speech doesn't come into it because it's not a licence to break the law or overule Acts of Parliament.
What the judges said is in effect was that when the law conflicts with freedom-of-speech, each case needs to judged on its own merit, rather that automatically assuming that the law always takes precedence.
The CPS could have potentially pursued this case on the basis that in the circumstances the protesters' actions weren't justified; but they didn't do that, instead they simply provided evidence that the accused broke the law.
This reminds me of something I read back in the eighties, regarding an F1 driver who was caught speeding and was prosecuted for dangerous driving, but was acquitted after convincing the judge that in his hands and in the circumstances the driving did not amount to being 'dangerous'.
However, he was not convicted of the lesser offence of speeding, simply because the prosecution never prosecuted him for that offence... they assumed that the speed he was driving at (from memory ~180) will automatically get him a dangerous driving conviction. I can't remember who the driver was...
Freedom-of-speech is more of a guiding principle rather than an American-style constitution amendment that trupms all other laws.
The CPS case was probably based on the fact that the protesters broke the law, and freedom-of-speech doesn't come into it because it's not a licence to break the law or overule Acts of Parliament.
What the judges said is in effect was that when the law conflicts with freedom-of-speech, each case needs to judged on its own merit, rather that automatically assuming that the law always takes precedence.
The CPS could have potentially pursued this case on the basis that in the circumstances the protesters' actions weren't justified; but they didn't do that, instead they simply provided evidence that the accused broke the law.
This reminds me of something I read back in the eighties, regarding an F1 driver who was caught speeding and was prosecuted for dangerous driving, but was acquitted after convincing the judge that in his hands and in the circumstances the driving did not amount to being 'dangerous'.
However, he was not convicted of the lesser offence of speeding, simply because the prosecution never prosecuted him for that offence... they assumed that the speed he was driving at (from memory ~180) will automatically get him a dangerous driving conviction. I can't remember who the driver was...
ChipChop
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A lesson in e-begging.
Here is a link to Roger Hallams website.
Roger Hallam - Roger Hallam
The Climate Situation is Beyond F**ked. 1000’s of millions of Climate Refugees, Economic Collapse & Human Extinction DISRUPTION WORKS. DISRUPTION IS JUSTIFIED. Only mass civil resistance can stop the top global 1% imposing mass death on billions of people. We are out of time for anything else...
www.rogerhallam.com
There are 3 links on the home page to his Patreon page.
Then we have Insulate Britains e-begging site and of course Extinction Rebellions e-begging masterpiece.
Insulate Britain - Insulate Britain
Humanity is at a pivotal crossroads: accelerated human-caused global heating is threatening to destroy human civilisation unless urgent action is taken to rapidly reduce our greenhouse gas emissions (GHG). The science is not disputed and now is the time to act. Improving the quality of our homes...
www.insulatebritain.com
Extinction Rebellion | Join The Fight Against Climate and Ecological Collapse
Life as we know it is on the brink of collapse. Our governments have failed to protect us. Help us to build a powerful movement to change the course we are on.
rebellion.global
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A lesson in e-begging.
Here is a link to Roger Hallams website.
Roger Hallam - Roger Hallam
The Climate Situation is Beyond F**ked. 1000’s of millions of Climate Refugees, Economic Collapse & Human Extinction DISRUPTION WORKS. DISRUPTION IS JUSTIFIED. Only mass civil resistance can stop the top global 1% imposing mass death on billions of people. We are out of time for anything else...
There are 3 links on the home page to his Patreon page.
Then we have Insulate Britains e-begging site and of course Extinction Rebellions e-begging masterpiece.
Insulate Britain - Insulate Britain
Humanity is at a pivotal crossroads: accelerated human-caused global heating is threatening to destroy human civilisation unless urgent action is taken to rapidly reduce our greenhouse gas emissions (GHG). The science is not disputed and now is the time to act. Improving the quality of our homes...
Extinction Rebellion | Join The Fight Against Climate and Ecological Collapse
Life as we know it is on the brink of collapse. Our governments have failed to protect us. Help us to build a powerful movement to change the course we are on.
I try to avoid accessing sites like those, just in case "Big Brother" is watching and tars me with the same Dafty brush!
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Your just being paranoid. Here, I am accessing them now and noth
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What has any of that got to do with you being so arrogant that you belive that everyone will share your opinion on the world?A lesson in e-begging.
Here is a link to Roger Hallams website.
Roger Hallam - Roger Hallam
The Climate Situation is Beyond F**ked. 1000’s of millions of Climate Refugees, Economic Collapse & Human Extinction DISRUPTION WORKS. DISRUPTION IS JUSTIFIED. Only mass civil resistance can stop the top global 1% imposing mass death on billions of people. We are out of time for anything else...
There are 3 links on the home page to his Patreon page.
Then we have Insulate Britains e-begging site and of course Extinction Rebellions e-begging masterpiece.
Insulate Britain - Insulate Britain
Humanity is at a pivotal crossroads: accelerated human-caused global heating is threatening to destroy human civilisation unless urgent action is taken to rapidly reduce our greenhouse gas emissions (GHG). The science is not disputed and now is the time to act. Improving the quality of our homes...
Extinction Rebellion | Join The Fight Against Climate and Ecological Collapse
Life as we know it is on the brink of collapse. Our governments have failed to protect us. Help us to build a powerful movement to change the course we are on.
D
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ChipChop
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Expressing a point of view does not denote arrogance. Other points of view exist. That is a given.
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ChipChop
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Whatever. I have a low opinion of these "environmental justice" (XR, Insulate Britain and anything to do with R Hallam) organisations that have popped up that just so happen to fully support the climate change narrative. In my opinion they are contrived and anything but grass roots.
Maybe you have an opinion or prefer to just shoot the messenger.
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Yes I have an opinion.
grober
MB Master
https://www.architecture.com/-/medi...-VPC/Additional-Documents/GreenerHomespdf.pdf
IR may have a point altho its not the way to go about it.
In terms of M25 traffic jams the circular has managed to produce these on a regular basis for years without any intervention from protest groups for the simple reason it invariably generated increased traffic by its very existance.* Thus leading to the conundrum that most new "relief roads" simply allow drivers to reach the next traffic jam quicker.
* M25 motorway - Wikipedia
IR may have a point altho its not the way to go about it.
In terms of M25 traffic jams the circular has managed to produce these on a regular basis for years without any intervention from protest groups for the simple reason it invariably generated increased traffic by its very existance.* Thus leading to the conundrum that most new "relief roads" simply allow drivers to reach the next traffic jam quicker.
* M25 motorway - Wikipedia
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We have a system where issues are debated in Parliament. MPs are elected by their constituents and represent them. It's called representatives democracy.
There are two issues with this, however.
The first is that getting legislation passed in Parliament is usually an elaborate process that requires a lot of hard work. Start a petition, get signatures, campaign for your MP to raise the issue in Parliament, get people in other constituents to campaign, etc.
The second is that with all the effort and hard work, it's a democracy, and you might still end-up with a minority view not supported by the majority.
But, there are quick fixes. The obvious one is terrorism, drop a few bombs and insist that your demands are met etc, the other is major disruptions to everyday life.
These are the solutions for the lazy who can't be bothered to do things the proper (and hard) way, and for those who know that the majority will never support them and there's no way they'll get their legislation to pass democratically.
There are two issues with this, however.
The first is that getting legislation passed in Parliament is usually an elaborate process that requires a lot of hard work. Start a petition, get signatures, campaign for your MP to raise the issue in Parliament, get people in other constituents to campaign, etc.
The second is that with all the effort and hard work, it's a democracy, and you might still end-up with a minority view not supported by the majority.
But, there are quick fixes. The obvious one is terrorism, drop a few bombs and insist that your demands are met etc, the other is major disruptions to everyday life.
These are the solutions for the lazy who can't be bothered to do things the proper (and hard) way, and for those who know that the majority will never support them and there's no way they'll get their legislation to pass democratically.
