Major problems getting a new key?..Help please !

[alanlincs]

Suffering a frustrating time at my local dealership...I ordered a extra key for my CLK 320 [2002] at a cost of £215 when I went to collect...it didnt open the doors or start ignition-remote not working at all?,,,on further inspection by the parts guy it appears the chassis numbers didnt match up with their records for the vehicle...after 3 weeks of making 90 mile round trips to the dealership and many emails to and from MB Germany and uk HQ ..it has now discovered that several parts on my vehicle ie The Engine Control Unit and also the E.I.S. Switch have been replaced from those from another vehicle which is now believed to have been stolen and never recovered so MB are now refusing to provide a new key as all dealings with parts for this other 'stolen' vehicle have been blocked.
This leaves me in a very difficult situation as obviously I was not aware of any changes made to my vehicle before I purchased it in good faith and also the previous owner who had it for 4 years was not aware of it being altered....this as been going on for 6 weeks now...I have parted with £215 and still am scared stiff of losing my one key...my vehicle has never been stolen so as far as I know...I shouldnt be having a problem...or should I ??
Any advice would be very much appreciated...it is my first MB and I love it to bits but this experience is driving me and the family mad..Heeeelllpp !

And by the way being a Newbie Hi to everyone!

 

[94mattda]

Hello, and welcome to the forum, i cannot help but someone will be along shortly to assist i am sure.

 

[glojo]

This leaves me in a very difficult situation as obviously I was not aware of any changes made to my vehicle before I purchased it in good faith and also the previous owner who had it for 4 years was not aware of it being altered....this as been going on for 6 weeks now...I have parted with £215 and still am scared stiff of losing my one key...my vehicle has never been stolen so as far as I know...I shouldnt be having a problem...or should I ??
Any advice would be very much appreciated...it is my first MB and I love it to bits but this experience is driving me and the family mad..Heeeelllpp !

And by the way being a Newbie Hi to everyone!

My thoughts on this is you need lots of tact and diplomacy.

I would have a friendly, polite, tactful word with the parts manager. I would have the registration document, driving licence\proof of identity and then very politely ask the manager what he would do, if the car was his.. Something very untoward has probably happened prior to your ownership and sadly I have witnessed a number of upset 'owners' of cars that were bought in good faith... all of us sudden finding out they no longer own 'their' car.

I do hope this is not a ringed vehicle and your diligence get punished

When buying a second-hand car I have this 'thing' about cars that only come with just one key. I just walk away... Yes there are no doubt legitamate reasons, but there are always other cars out there and it takes a lot of hard work for a seller to get hold of my hard earned scheckles

 

[219]

Since , if I am reading this correctly , you only bought the vehicle recently - is this correct ?

A lot depends where you bought the vehicle and what type of sale it was .

The first thing I'd do - if you didn't already - is get an HPI or similar check carried out against your VIN number , to check that the vehicle isn't registered somewhere as stolen/recovered/condition alert or whatever .

Once you know your vehicle is 'clear' , and assuming you bought it from a dealer or motor trader of some sort , I'd go back to them and explain the situation then politely but firmly ask them to sort it out .

As feared by John , above , if the checks reveal something to be amiss , with the vehicle - ie it is not the vehicle it purports to be - your only redress would be against the seller .

If you bought it in a private sale , then sadly you don't have this option .

The HPI check , showing the vehicle to be 'clear' might also help with MB - prehaps your dealer can 'inspect' the vehicle , check the documentation and 'persuade' MB HQ that this is a legitimate request .

After that , you're down to replacing the full lock set and keys , which is £££ .

Don't know what else to suggest .

 

[wemorgan]

Not a proper solution to your problem I know but.......
on my bunch of keys I have a NatWest key ring which offers £10 if returned when lost.
This might offer some peace of mind for your one remaining key.

 

[219]

Another possible , and more cost-effective solution , would be if you can source a similar car you yours (perhaps in a breakers) and get a complete lock and key set to replace those in your own car .

Since the CLK is based on the W210 series ( of which some are known for rusting badly ) I wonder if your dealer might have taken any rusty W210's in under the scrappage scheme and would be able to salvage a complete lock and key set for a reasonable price ?

 

[Sp!ke]

It does sound suspiciously like your car might be cloned with the identity of another. I struggle to fathom why else the ECU and lockset would all be from another car. I would be very closely scrutinising all identification numbers of this car in order to try and ascertain the truth.

I would consider investigating the story behind the original stolen car that this ECU came from. It may well have been legitimately recovered and sold on to a breakers yard, in which case Mercedes have no right to block anything. If the car was never recovered however, You might unintentionally trigger interest by the insurers who could try and put a claim on your car.

As others have said, was the car bought from a dealer or private seller? I suspect it would be in your interest to sort this out now as you may find that an insurance company gets in touch pretty soon with a claim on your car... especially if Mercedes have now told them. Even if they dont, selling this car on might now be a major headache.

 

[flango]

I would go with the advice above but as a very very last resort you need someone local to you with one of THESE

Everyone will tell you keys can't be reprogrammed but they can its just a long winded process as there is a lot of desoldering and resolderring to do and then the guy that did the programming has your codes which is not good for the future if he's not honest.

Theres a guy in Derby does them for about £150 a pop, but I stress this is a very, very, very last resort

 

[alanlincs]

Thanks very much for your help and advice so far....bit of further info...I did do a text check on the vehicle which came back all clear...not stolen/not scrapped...I did buy it from a private seller who I have contacted re this problem and he has no knowledge as to why the engine control unit and EIS switch were changed before he purchased from its original owner.[3 owners inc me]..all I can think is the 1st owner lost their key or keys and decided to buy'cheap' the parts...had them fitted by a non MB dealer and carried on as normal....I did ask MB what the alternative would be = new ECU/EIS/keys total cost £1.500 plus!
MB are clearly telling me that my car has never been stolen but the parts which have been changed were from a stolen/never recovered vehicle and that is their reason for blocking the sale of another key to match the serial numbers to these parts....a real pain...I am the inocent party ...not even sure if I will get my £215 back as they could argue that they have already offered me a key to match my chassis number and its not their fault that it doesnt work?....

 

[Robbie T]

Not quite on the main point but relevant still i think; i'm sure an ECU once fitted to a vehicle is only suitable for that car. Once it has been "locked in" it won't communicate with any other vehicle, so i don't know how yours can be a second hand unit. Also, an ECU will not have a bearing on whether you can access the car or not, it's merely for engine control (as the name implies).

An EIS is not vehicle specific however, they are merely "taught" which vehicle/key numbers to recognise.

 

[219]

Hmmmm , if you were unfortunate enough to 'lose' your only remaining key , would your insurance cough up for the new locks and keys under the circumstances - especially after you emphasise how worried you are that the lost key might have fallen into the wrong hands and could be used to steal your car

 

[IanA2]

Hmmmm , if you were unfortunate enough to 'lose' your only remaining key , would your insurance cough up for the new locks and keys under the circumstances - especially after you emphasise how worried you are that the lost key might have fallen into the wrong hands and could be used to steal your car

I'm sorry but what you seem to be suggesting is just plain wrong. False/inflated/creative claims are just another form of theft. The rest of us are left to pick up the bill. Would you advise him to save money by not buying insurance?

 

[grober]

Are we talking hardware identity here or software? Are Mercedes going by serial numbers on the units themselves or by interrogating the software? Could the software have been "cloned" from another car say to change the mileage on the instrument cluster? Were all the units changed under a warranty repair and never officially recorded by MB ?. I'm with Spike here. I would be asking Mercedes for written details of the "stolen" car. Vin number registration number and date of theft and insurance company/ who flagged it as stolen. So far you have only their word for what's happened and a little more explanation on their part would help clarify matters.

 

[MD5]

MB are clearly telling me that my car has never been stolen but the parts which have been changed were from a stolen/never recovered vehicle and that is their reason for blocking the sale of another key to match the serial numbers to these parts....a real pain...I am the inocent party

Sorry to read about your dilemma, but it does create a curious scenario of the dealer/MB acting as judge and jury in what really is a legal matter, and a criminal one at that. It also questions the validity of vehicle checks in this age of sophisticated electronics.

Are they intimating that you are the guilty party? They must surely recognise your predicament, so why penalise you for it? I would ask if the car was stolen from them directly, and if so, when. If it wasn't, it shouldn't be their concern to this extent, but maybe they should appraise the insurance company that paid out, and the police. I really don't know where you would stand from the point of view of ownership (of parts), but clearly the car itself hasn't been stolen.

Conversely, it's good to think the manufacturer is pro-active regarding security. A real catch 22 situation, but I hope you get a satisfactory outcome.

 

[glojo]

I don't think anyone is being judge and jury, but I would think long and hard before digging too much...

No one is suggesting your car is definitely ringed, no one is suggesting your car has stolen parts on it...

BUT

If you find out thatanyparts on your vehicle are definitely stolen then this will open up a whole new can of worms.
Are you better off just getting this sorted in the cheapest way possible?

When I buy a second-hand car my ears tendto go into deaf mode when sellers tell me how good the car is, or how it has been owned by a one legged female, pope.

I am like you and would hate owning a car with just one key and I guess any reasonable owner would also be concerned

 

[Rory]

Not quite on the main point but relevant still i think; i'm sure an ECU once fitted to a vehicle is only suitable for that car. Once it has been "locked in" it won't communicate with any other vehicle, so i don't know how yours can be a second hand unit. Also, an ECU will not have a bearing on whether you can access the car or not, it's merely for engine control (as the name implies).

An EIS is not vehicle specific however, they are merely "taught" which vehicle/key numbers to recognise.

Not being funny or anything, but do you know this stuff for sure in relation to MB? I don't, but I'm just trying to establish a reference point.

There have certainly been cars in the past - FIAT springs to mind - where if the master key was lost then the ECU had to be replaced.

On MBs, I understand that they store information in all sorts of places - the dealer must have been able to pick up the incorrect VIN from somewhere.

 

[Howard]

There must be loads of MB's out there with ECU's from other cars ...

Imagine the scenario , your ECU karks it , you go to MB , they want grands for it , so you go to a breaker and get one ...

However , if there are multiple ECU's in your car all from one other car , then that would ring alarm bells ...

 

[MD5]

I don't think anyone is being judge and jury, but I would think long and hard before digging too much...

No one is suggesting your car is definitely ringed, no one is suggesting your car has stolen parts on it...

Sorry to disagree, but MB are suggesting exactly that, and as such will no longer afford the OP the service the rest of us would be entitled to, and I assume this is based on a judgement of some kind.

I agree about opening a can of worms, but it already has been. Who is to say MB won't have flagged the car, as they are currently not assisting further in this situation? I would want it to be resolved.

 

[jaymanek]

There must be loads of MB's out there with ECU's from other cars ...

Imagine the scenario , your ECU karks it , you go to MB , they want grands for it , so you go to a breaker and get one ...

However , if there are multiple ECU's in your car all from one other car , then that would ring alarm bells ...

yes this is more than likely,... you can buy all the stuff second hand for under £800... cheaper than a new ECU or whatever else may have been duff.

There is a way around this. Buy a new ignition lock, buy a blank key... then you can use a "green key" to code the blank key to lock... You have to leave a deposit for the green key but you get this back once returned.
This will all cost you in the region of £500 when all is said and done.

 

[nick mercedes]

There must be loads of MB's out there with ECU's from other cars .....

The late ones are chassis coded, so used ones are usless.

Has OP checked his engine and gearbox number match the chassis number?