Man charged with murder and rape

[glojo]

I am a passionate objector to the death penalty, but I am sickened by the behaviour of a human being that has just been charged with the rape and murder of a two year old baby. I fear we will all voice out contempt, but why, why? why has this person done this?

I feel so upset for that poor innocent little child and cannot even begin to imagine the pain and suffering she was put through.

My she be in a far happier place


John

 

[Gollom]

I am a passionate objector to the death penalty, but I am sickened by the behaviour of a human being that has just been charged with the rape and murder of a two year old baby. I fear we will all voice out contempt, but why, why? why has this person done this?

I feel so upset for that poor innocent little child and cannot even begin to imagine the pain and suffering she was put through.

My she be in a far happier place


John

Please, please, please let the police accidently leave him alone for a moment when being escorted through the crowds from the van to a courthouse.

 

[Andyni]

What is going on in society today? It now seems more and more common that young children and toddlers are abducted, raped, tortured and murdered. I for one think that these people should never again see the light of day and not in the modern comfy prisons with more sky television channels than most families can afford.

 

[Seamster15]

Pure Scum, no more need be said.

 

[mark.t]

I am a passionate objector to the death penalty, but I am sickened by the behaviour of a human being that has just been charged with the rape and murder of a two year old baby. I fear we will all voice out contempt, but why, why? why has this person done this?

I feel so upset for that poor innocent little child and cannot even begin to imagine the pain and suffering she was put through.

My she be in a far happier place


John

because he could ..... its all about power and he had it ......we know this from the many others who have been taken this way ....... the profile will fit him like a glove ...... none of us will ever know what she went through we can't even begin to think ...... if we could only fit the profile before the appalling event (the minority report film springs to mind) I am not suggesting we could jump into the future .....we can fit profiles but this would be hard to enforce. ..... and would it do any good ...they would just go on another list. we have to protect the children. the social services were involved with this family in 2005 but are refusing to give details ..lets see if social services have any back ground on this ....maybe they could have done more ....maybe it was something completely different ......we teach our children about stranger danger .... but only rarely are they subjected to this kind of crime by a stranger .....we can't wrap them in cotton wool but how do we protect them from our family's

 

[Swiss Toni]

Going off on a tangent, I don't believe that the modern world is any more risky for kids than, say 30 or 40 years ago.

That was a time when the media was not as sensational, informed or effective as it is now. It was a time when a woman who reported being hit by her husband would get asked by Police "What did you do to deserve it?".

That was a time when the forensic and detective ability of the authorities depended on a pretty foolish error on the part of the offender. It is only relatively recently that murder convictions have stood appeal court scrutiny where no body has been found.

I genuinely believe that things are getting better.


I met a man who had killed a 13 year old girl fairly recently. I am in a position where I recognise people who walk towards me down our High Street by the offences they have committed (and that IS scary).
As a father, I feel I have an accurate picture of how dangerous society (around my home) is - You are far more likely to be killed by a family member than a stranger.

Some kids never stand a chance. So so sad.

 

[idouglas@sandiw]

I am a passionate objector to the death penalty, but I am sickened by the behaviour of a human being that has just been charged with the rape and murder of a two year old baby. I fear we will all voice out contempt, but why, why? why has this person done this?

I feel so upset for that poor innocent little child and cannot even begin to imagine the pain and suffering she was put through.

My she be in a far happier place


John

I'm afraid that under no circumstances could I this individual as a human being. Do you think that the death penalty should apply in these circumstances John? If not then at the very least we should surely ensure that this individual has absolutely no chance of EVER re-offending. By this I mean no release EVER, because some psycholgist/s believe they are fit to rejoin society. My heart goes out to that poor child.

Ian

 

[glojo]

Do you think that the death penalty should apply in these circumstances John? If not then at the very least we should surely ensure that this individual has absolutely no chance of EVER re-offending. By this I mean no release EVER, because some psychologist/s believe they are fit to rejoin society. My heart goes out to that poor child.

Ian

Hi Ian,
You have asked me a direct question and I feel guilty about my beliefs but yes your right, this person should NEVER be released, NEVER.

I am known for my firm beliefs about prisons and I cannot understand how we pamper those members of society that have decided to ignore certain standards of behaviour. Yet when these self same people go to prison they immediately demand ever benefit that is available. By this I mean they have the best of health care with no waiting list. dental care, education, fitness gyms, psychologists, psychiatrists, counsellors, all at there beck and call. Yes these people have a right to everything, but there rights should not jump the queue and perhaps they should have a lower priority than law abiding citizens that have not offended against society.

My beliefs are that a prison should be a place where people learn that it is better on the outside, it is better to respect the law as opposed to breaking it. There is a place for human rights, but my belief is that the human rights of the innocent should have priority over the rights of the criminal. No segregation for sex offenders, if you commit the crime then be prepared to serve the time. No 50 or 60% remission for merely serving the first part of a sentence. No right to visitors, no food parcels, smoking should be a privilege and cigarettes issued one at a time and to be smoked straight away or disposed of. Food, cigarettes etc will be paid for out of a wage for working. Labour will be hard and physical, yes there should be a chance for prisoners to better themselves and schooling could be offered in the evenings, or week-ends. Oh and no rights to a television, recreational activities will again be a privilege. Anything, and everything will be a perk, a perk to behave, and for the very well behaved a chance to earn a slight remission in their sentence.

For the most serious of sexual offenders I'm afraid they should remain imprisoned until they are no longer a threat to society, I am NOT a medical person, but would castration be an option? This procedure could only be carried out with the prisoners consent and would no doubt be taken into account at any review panel for parole.

I always tend to agree with Swiss Toni and along those lines I believe children have always been vulnerable, but a two year old, this is an exception and hopefully an extremely rare one. I also suspect there is a history with this case and the hind sight experts of this forum will soon be out with all there destructive criticism of perhaps the Social Services and the Police. I also wonder how many of our 'Big Brother' objectors are now saying why wasn't something done earlier?

This person is entitled to a public defender and legal aid, but it saddens me when I will be reading in a few years time, how no doubt he will appeal against his sentence on a technicality. How many of us would want this person to get away with this crime on a technicality? What would happen if the charge sheet showed the wrong date? Would those that advocate a parking ticket be dismissed because it had the wrong date, advocate this person should also be released if the wrong date was on the charge sheet? No doubt they would consider that it is different, but when does this technicality become different? Theft, assault?

I will never change my mind over the death penalty simply because mistakes happen, yes mistakes, genuine mistakes whereby an innocent person gets hanged, how do we say sorry? There are some people that will plead guilty to murder simply because they believe they deserve to be punished, they will research a case and answer the most difficult of questions, but they are innocent. Life should mean life, this person should remain behind bars for the rest of his natural life, with no chance of EVER being released. Any member of the family that had knowledge of this persons behaviour should also be severely punished.

This innocent young child is now hopefully at peace,
Regards,
John

 

[BIG Sean]

Leave the poor misunderstood soul in open population, lock the doors, turn off the cameras and give the 'screws' a night off - sorted!!!

 

[whizzkid11]

Bring back CORPORATE PUNISHMENT - Death penalty all the way !!!

It would solve a lot of modern day society issues.

Nobody would ever dare think about such an offence in countries where public corporate punishment is exercised.

On a recent trip to the UAE - I left the car open, mobile phone and wallet in the car - came back to find everything as is.

 

[Carrotchomper]

Bring back CORPORATE PUNISHMENT -

Nobody would ever dare think about such an offence in countries where public corporate punishment is exercised.

No, everyone knows that involving the private sector is a bad idea. Which company would do the punishing?!?

 

[pammy]

.....we can't wrap them in cotton wool but how do we protect them from our family's

You are far more likely to be killed by a family member than a stranger.

He was her uncle.

I don't believe in the death penalty - but do believe he should never ever see the light of day as a free man again. If he is found guilty of course.

 

[portzy]

What got me was "compression of the neck" . Is that some PC way of sanitising the situation or allegation?. To me she was a strangled and raped two year old, thats the reality, its no good dressing up the situation in softer language.

Portzy.

 

[Flasheart]

Please, please, please let the police accidently leave him alone for a moment when being escorted through the crowds from the van to a courthouse.

And should this person be found to be innocent? What then?

If you want mob rule - bring in Sharia law.

 

[Gollom]

And should this person be found to be innocent? What then?

If you want mob rule - bring in Sharia law.

I take your point - that is fair comment. My brain is having problems coping with even the slightest thought that someone could do something like this (if proven). Maybe it could happen if and when a person is proved guilty.

 

[glojo]

Bring back CORPORATE PUNISHMENT - Death penalty all the way !!!

It would solve a lot of modern day society issues.

Nobody would ever dare think about such an offence in countries where public corporate punishment is exercised.

On a recent trip to the UAE - I left the car open, mobile phone and wallet in the car - came back to find everything as is.

Hi Whizzkid,
Corporate punishment My old Sergeant used to say that Corporals were created to punish people, perhaps Corporate or large companies should also be punished? Sorry about my sense of humour and I fully understand what you mean.

Unfortunately in the real world the Middle East still has prisons, and certainly has its fair share of crime. Did you witness the stoning to death of adulterers, or the way women are treated?

I am not defending this deed, and I will put my head on the block here and suggest that I have already reached a verdict on this person. We have recently witnessed someone who battered their step daughter to death and is now demanding compensation for actually being persecuted, or should I say prosecuted. Tough on crime!!! No....... More like modern law is an advocates licence to print money. How much will this trial cost? How much will each appeal cost?, Why allow someone to plead not guilty if there is damning evidence to prove they were the instigator. By all means plead not guilty if they are not guilty, BUT if they plead not guilty and whilst giving evidence they lie on oath then they should expect to be charged with perjury! Add on five years for lying on oath, withdraw the right to remain silent and boy would the courts case loads disappear. However our advocates will not be earning as much and this can never be allowed to happen. Legal aid should always be available, but for repeat offenders? Should they be entitled to the best counsel when they habitually break the law and habitually plead not guilty. What about they get legal aid, but they get a freshly qualified advocate?

I do not give a hoot whether this person is Christian, Muslim, Buddhist or Sikh, can anyone convince me via pm (please) that there is a God? A greater being that could allow such evil. A greater being that could sit back and allow this evil act to be committed? If there is a God then why could they not allow a bus, lorry, bolt of lightning etc to strike this sick person before the event?

Many apologies for the religious no, no, but this post is not discussing a specific, it is a plea for an answer via pm (please)

I have read about profiling and sadly I laughed. What is the profile of this person? Someone that was themselves abused, someone that is a loner, someone that might have led a sheltered life. If any of these statements are correct, do I then say I told you so? Or should we arrest everyone that was abused when they were a child? We already know his colour of skin and age, but that would have been in my profile.

Sorry for the ramble but the thoughts of how this little child must have suffered sicken me and I wonder if that house should now be flattened and a Memorial Garden be put in its place?

I hope no one takes offence at my flower as a symbol of thought for this innocent child?

Yours sincerely
John

 

[BonzoDog]

Lot's of emotion here but I agree with Swiss Toni, the world is getting better. the basis of our society is the Law and our Law , if I interpret it correctly is supporting our concepts of civilisation.
In my view such people are sick. They are a constant in Society. The need is, if this man is guilty to punish him and make sure that this doesn't happen again. That can probably be combined in locking him up forever. The problem, as again Swiss Toni identified, is in identifying these people before they do something wrong but what do we do next? How do we then handle the problem of solving the potential for crime? Where do we draw the line?
Punishing these people would seem to have no influence in preventing others from performing such acts

 

[glojo]

Lot's of emotion here but I agree with Swiss Toni, the world is getting better. the basis of our society is the Law and our Law , if I interpret it correctly is supporting our concepts of civilisation.

I'm not convinced,
Gun crime

Fortunately we are quite sheltered here in the West country, but I still find it hard to believe that teenagers are walking the streets of our inner cities with section one firearms and indeed automatic weapons? Unbelievable, guns were usually the domain of the really nasty gangland thugs and certainly NEVER carried by teenagers just as a fashion accessory.

Regarding this recent event, of course there has always been evil cases of this type, but this one is clearly an exception which is a VERY rare statistical hiccup.

Crime figures are now unfortunately a media circus with the Daily Mail knockers screaming one lot of statistics and the Daily Mail readers citing another set. A very good indicator of crime is Joe publics conception. Thirty years ago would that same fear of walking the streets at night still be there? Would 'shop lifting' have been treated as such a petty crime? Would mugging be treated as a petty crime? Mugging is ROBBERY, robbery, pure and simple. Violence being used in the commission of a theft. It can also be argued that shop lifting can be more than straight forward theft? Surely if a so called shop lifter is banned from a premises then any return to that location to carry out a criminal act is burglary? Instead the case is shop lifting and the offender if unlucky will be given a fixed penalty?

My wife was at the doctors surgery yesterday and a five year old boy went up to an old age pensioner and shouted at them, "Your in my seat!" The pensioner pointed out he was merely sitting down waiting to be seen by a doctor. This five year old kept shouting at this frail old man until he moved. The boys parent was present, there was an empty seat alongside the parent yet this parent watched a five year old child brow beat a frail old man. Would this have happened thirty years ago? Do I blame the child? Or do I blame the parent? Going back to profiling, this poor, misunderstood young child will probably grow up to be a person I would not like?

Now before we all put on our tinted glasses, I grew up in the Mods and Rockers era where the local gang was known as the 'Stevenage Slashers' and this title came about not through wanting to urinate everywhere so I fully accept that violence is nothing knew, but we still had respect for the Police, respect for teachers respect for our parents and respect for the elderly etc.

I am of the opinion that we are living in a less law abiding society and also a society that has less respect for there fellow man.

No I cannot produce statistics to back up my claim, but even if I could, would anyone believe them? To highlight this point, I believe the biggest\largest surveys of recent times are the Protest against the Iraq War, where over one million people gathered in London, then the latest petition against road tolls with well over one million signatures. Has government paid any heed to these huge gatherings (or statistic) Clearly statistics are only used if they agree with a particular point?

John the statistic hater

 

[Flasheart]

I take your point - that is fair comment. My brain is having problems coping with even the slightest thought that someone could do something like this (if proven). Maybe it could happen if and when a person is proved guilty.

how would you like them killed? Stoning? Hot pokers up the back side?

What worries me is that comments like the above are made by people who deplore the sectarian violence in Iraq as barbaric and sub-human. Yet they still want it for crimes that they feel are of such a nature that they should involve retribution of a physical nature.

Just supposing after a trial, some one is found guilty, then subjected to mob rule justice is later found to be innocent? What then? How many innocent victims would be acceptable? How long before we just do away with the courts and go along with the press damnation of individuals? Given the recent release without charge of two people in Birmingham, who were arrested and questioned for offences that would have been horrific had they occured, we would have seen them handed over to the mob to kill.

I am in no way condoning any crimes, however i do beleive that society should be protected from people by life meaning life. What i am not for though is the lets save public money and hang them/stone them/hot poker them. I do also beleive people can be rehabilitated, this is not possible in every case and indeed i supect it can only be achieved in a few cases for some crimes of a sexual nature.

But as a society we do need to think where we stand - when we lecture the Taliban for their criminal justice system and way of life, it would appear that a large number of people would be quite happy to live in such a society. So for speeding do we cut peoples legs off so they can't press the accelerator? Extreme example but where do you draw the line?

 

[Flasheart]

Hi Whizzkid,
Why allow someone to plead not guilty if there is damning evidence to prove they were the instigator. By all means plead not guilty if they are not guilty, BUT if they plead not guilty and whilst giving evidence they lie on oath then they should expect to be charged with perjury!

Presumably the reason people are brought to court is because of damning evidence against them. That is why they are brought to court for that evidence to be judged on all its merits. If we were to follow your thoughts Glojo we would have people sentenced to gaol when they are arrested. After all they are guilty so they shouldn't be allowed to appeal against their sentence. Now lets not get sidetracked here but if someone is photographed by a speed camera/police hand held laser device and it says they are above the speed limit - why bother with a court case - the evidence is damning...... unless as is currently proven in court that it can be flawed. Another example - woman stabs her husband after years of abuse by him both physical and mental. She admits that she stabbed him, open and shut, send her down for life. But hang on she has mitigation. Nope never gets heard as she is clearly guilty. Person tries to get out of am minor offence by lying/'extending the truth', normal sentence 6 months - but under your proposals 5 years 6 months. Let the punishment fit the crime, so long as it is humane and just. The system we have may not be perfect - but it isn't all bad.