MAS - Some interesting observations

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nickmann

Active Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
673
Car
Porsche 911
My dealer had on his forecourt a Jan 2000 c240, so I took it out for a spin for interest, just to see how it compared to mine.

I found it was completely different. The throttle response was way better at low revs, but poor higher up, and the gearchanges were very different. Mine are very smooth, almost too slippy at very light throttle. I also have an issue with the 3rd to 4th change, which can be a bit quirky sometimes. Overall, I noticed that the car felt very different to mine in its driving characterstics. I drove it for long enough to be sure that the adaptive gearchange was used to me.

Then I had a thought. I swapped out the MAS into mine, and took it out. Amazing - my car was now the dealer's car!! Drove the dealer's car with my MAS, and hey presto, it was mine.

With my eyes closed (figuratively speaking) the entire character of the car is contained in the MAS sensor.

I talked it over with the workshop manager and he was not surprised. With this knowledge I have ordered a replacement MAS as we are pretty sure it will iron out my 3rd gear quirks (the shift to 4th flutters at certain throttle openings). This will be fixed instantly, and he says that if I pop inot the workshop he will reset the engine adaptions as well and I should get some more power and smoothness overall.

I asked a him more more about this. It seems the g'box adaption is temporary memory of the last several changes, and can be reset by a battery disconnection. The engine management is different - the system learns the relationships beween the sensors, and these do not get overwritten with a power loss- so my ECU is using a table that was learned up to 80,000 miles ago. What he expects to happen is to reset the ECU, then it will learn the relationships between the new MAS and the other sensors, notably the crank sensor, cam sensors etc and this will take into account 80,000 miles of bedding in.

Anyway, I pick up the MAS at lunchtime, I'll bang it in straight away and see what happens. It will go into the workshop later this month for some other work and I'll get it reset then, and we'll see if that makes any difference.
 
Personally I would have just swapped them and kept quiet. Little bit woo, little bit whey!
 
Hi,

The Air Mass sensor is the primary load sensor. This means that fuelling and ignition is affected directly by the voltage signal from this sensor. As the gearbox control unit gets a load signal from the engine control unit, the gearchanges are also directly affected by the Air Mass sensor.

As a matter of interest, playing about with different Air Mass sensors with different voltage signal progression on a car can produce some nice results on the diesel powered cars as the load signal directly affects turbo boost as well.

On vehicles with the Bosch hot film air mass sensor, we advise our customers to replace the air mass sensor every 40K miles. regardless of performance. We find that voltage at various set points within the rev/load range is down compared to a new sensor at this mileage.

On the diesels we normally replace Bosch sensors with Pierburg ones with the same voltage progression.

regards,

Job
 
OK, replaced the sensor and drove back to work. Response from standstill is improved, as evidenced by ASR light flashing when turning out of the dealer's carpark. 2nd gear hesitation gone, change from 3rd to 4th fixed. Light throttle changes still what I would call "soft".

I'll get it all reset next week and see what happens.

PN# MA112 094 00 48 £238.93
 
Nickmann, what is the part number for a C240 MAS?

My sutobox also does the "hunting" thing between 3rd and 4th under light load and i'm sure it doesn't have the go that it should.

Could it be that my MAS is gone after 25000 miles?
 
Hi Job,

I have a 2000 W202 C43 which is coming up to 40,000 miles i don't know what Mas i have, would you sugest changing it at my next service? Thanks.

Peter.
 
C43AMG said:
Hi Job,

I have a 2000 W202 C43 which is coming up to 40,000 miles i don't know what Mas i have, would you sugest changing it at my next service? Thanks.

Peter.

Hi Peter,

Yes I would change it. However if you feel that spending a couple of hundred quid without any real need, get the garage to check the sensor properly by driving the vehicle and checking the nominal sensor values against the actual sensor values. I would expect the sensor to have degraded a fair bit at that mileage. A good independent will do this quite gladly but you might find that a franchised dealer won't do this within their normal service cost.

regards,

Job
 
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se97mlm said:
Nickmann, what is the part number for a C240 MAS?

My sutobox also does the "hunting" thing between 3rd and 4th under light load and i'm sure it doesn't have the go that it should.

Could it be that my MAS is gone after 25000 miles?

Mine went at 30,000 ish so it maybe your MAS.

http://mbclub.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=9166&highlight=MAS*

Get it checked out by a stealer
 
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Job+ Mambo,

Many thanks for your time and imfo.

Regards,

Peter.
 
se97mlm said:
Nickmann, what is the part number for a C240 MAS?

My sutobox also does the "hunting" thing between 3rd and 4th under light load and i'm sure it doesn't have the go that it should.

Could it be that my MAS is gone after 25000 miles?

se97mlm - check my 2nd post for part number and price. I don't know how to test it, sorry.
 
Sorry! I was being totally blind!!!

Managed to get a new one on ebay for £95; worth buying as a trial, could sell on if my original is not faulty. Just waiting for it to turn up now!!
 
jgevers said:
Hi Peter,

Yes I would change it. However if you feel that spending a couple of hundred quid without any real need, get the garage to check the sensor properly by driving the vehicle and checking the nominal sensor values against the actual sensor values. I would expect the sensor to have degraded a fair bit at that mileage. A good independent will do this quite gladly but you might find that a franchised dealer won't do this within their normal service cost.

regards,

Job

Are they not self-calibrating / compensating? If not then if the output characteristics are the same, surely the fabled eBay resistor in series would 'fix' it?
 
stats007 said:
Are they not self-calibrating / compensating? If not then if the output characteristics are the same, surely the fabled eBay resistor in series would 'fix' it?

Hi,

No they are not 'self compensating'. A resistor in series would not fix it either. I would expect some people have used a 'resistor in series' on the air temperature sensor part (on MAFs with integrated air temp sensor), to make the ECU 'see' a lower air temperature. This circuit uses a NTC type resistor in the MAF and a normal resistor inside the ECU. The ECU provides a 5V reference which is 'split' by the 2 resistors. If anyone is interested I can explain this in more detail, but might be a bit boring.

regards,

Job
 
Bit of a shame :( If you have time I'd be interested in a detailed explanation - maybe PM?
 
we all know that they mas maf fail in spec and do not give a fault code
you can order direct from bosch but takes a long time ???? ummm me thinks so people order from main agent at 3 times the cost
do not use electrical cleaner it does not work
 
TheWorkShop site

I found a very interesting write up on this TheWorkShop site Electronic Fuel Injection page 3 & 4. It talks about the Throttle Body and then the Air Flow Meter (so many diff terms for this part). A must read for all.

EFI Fix Page 3
 
Well that was well worth doing for £95!!

Got the new MAS fitted tonight and what a difference! Must have degraded slowly over time I reckon. Car pulls like a train from low revs now and doesn't go down a gear with every stab of the throttle at motorway speeds.

Gear changes seem smoother and the revs drop right down when lifting off at lower speeds in high gears. It will let me have 5th much earlier now and you can feel the pull in this gear!

Pedal response seems better now, always wondered why it had such a large travel for such little effect!

My advice is to get one of these parts cheaply from ebay. Well worth it!
 
se97mlm said:
Well that was well worth doing for £95!!

Got the new MAS fitted tonight and what a difference! Must have degraded slowly over time I reckon. Car pulls like a train from low revs now and doesn't go down a gear with every stab of the throttle at motorway speeds.

Gear changes seem smoother and the revs drop right down when lifting off at lower speeds in high gears. It will let me have 5th much earlier now and you can feel the pull in this gear!

Pedal response seems better now, always wondered why it had such a large travel for such little effect!

My advice is to get one of these parts cheaply from ebay. Well worth it!

My experience mirrors yours almost exactly. I replaced the MAS on my car a couple of weeks ago, the effect is amazing, the car drives better at all points of the performance spectrum. The improvement in fuel consumption means that it won't take long to amortise the cost of the MAS either. Incidentally, I couldn't find one on ebay, so I bought mine from Eurocarparts. The price was £202.00 all in for a genuine Bosch part. Nowhere near as good as your £95.00, but still better than the stealership price. BBA Reman could not supply a MAS at the time I was making my enquiries. But as I now have the duff unit to hand, I'll contact them again to see if they can quote for refurbishment. If these things go pop every 40k miles or so, it will be useful to have a spare.
 
I've read that this problem is limited to mainly the C class - is this true?
 

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