Massive fire in London apartment block

[Darrell]

Terrible news. All that expensive renovation and no sprinkler system in the communal areas and balconies, at least?

Never seen sprinklers on a balcony before.

 

[markjay]

One fire in one flat will not bring a block down.

But an extensive fire across many whole floors will severely weaken the structure. Internal fire proofing is mainly to allow escape but cannot hold back the heat from the structural elements for very long.

It is unbelievable that they could not foresee this...it has happened before.

I think there's an inherent issue with the large number of tower blocks built around London (and in other places in the UK) in the seventies by local councils and housing associations. There are several dozens of those just around where I live.

They were intended to 'vertically stock-pile' people on housing benefits or those looking for affordable housing near city centres. As such, they were built to the fire regulations in force at the time, and generally on budget.

This however does not make them a fire hazard in itself... the issue I see is that when you have a large building that was built with the purpose of providing free or low-cost accommodations in a central location, I imagine hat there would be some reluctance on the part of those responsible for its upkeep to spend vast amount of money on modernising it and making it safer.

In addition, given that these towers house properly several hundred thousands of people across London alone, it is not easy to find alternative solutions for their residents. The budgets required to re-house tenants or to rebuild these towers are massive.

Either way, some deep soul searching will no doubt take place in the months and years to come.

 

[renault12ts]

Exactly - the best fire protection will only give you a small opportunity for escape, but it's entirely dependent on where the fire is and what compartmentation exists in the common areas of the building. This building had limited access/egress points as with any tower.

Ultimately the fire will take hold and the intense heat will likely be fatal for the building structure. Where in the building do they think this one started or is it too early to say?

I fear that fatalities will numerous.

It started in a flat on the second floor. Once it broke out through windows the building was toast.

 

[renault12ts]

I think there's an inherent issue with the large number of tower blocks built around London (and in other places in the UK) in the seventies by local councils and housing associations. There are several dozens of those just around where I live.

They were intended to 'vertically stock-pile' people on housing benefits or those looking for affordable housing near city centres. As such, they were built to the fire regulations in force at the time, and generally on budget.

This however does not make them a fire hazard in itself... the issue I see is that when you have a large building that was built with the purpose of proving free or low-cost accommodations, I imagine hat there would be some reluctance on the part of those responsible for its upkeep to spend vast amount of money on modernising it and make it safer.

In addition, given that these towers house properly several hundred thousands of people across London alone, it is not easy to find alternative solutions for these people.

Either way, some deep soul searching will no doubt take place in the months and years to come.

The building had £8.7m spent on it.

The irony is that this block was probably safer before the refurbishment than after...concrete doesn't burn.

 

[ShinyF1]

High density floor plans, means of escape not the best

 

[GLK]

Never seen sprinklers on a balcony before.

Many apartments blocks in Miami Beach have them - I remember a few years back, when we were looking for a place, noticing that.

Granted, the size of those balconies - more like outside terraces, and the building standards, etc are in a different category ...

 

[markjay]

The building had £8.7m spent on it.

The irony is that this block was probably safer before the refurbishment than after...concrete doesn't burn.

True, but there are also elements such as fire alarm and sprinkler system for all common areas, accessible fire escapes, easy access for fire engines, etc, all of which could have reduced the damage to the building and/or injury and loss of life.

I live in a Victorian building (5 floors) and some work was recently done - in the corridor on each floor we now have a smoke detector and fire alarm, emergency lights and EXIT signage, fire extinguishers, etc. I am all too aware of the extensive use of timbre in Victorian buildings though... I guess that this is all hat can be done save tearing down the building and rebuilding it to modern standards.

 

[Meldrew2]

Never seen sprinklers on a balcony before.

They have been fitted to most cruise ships since the fire on Star Princess.

While an internal structure can be compartmentalised, balconies have no such barriers preventing the spread of fire across many zones and levels

Clothes drying in a balcony and a door left ajar for ventilation is all you need.

 

[renault12ts]

True, but there are also elements such as fire alarm and sprinkler system for all common areas, accessible fire escapes, easy access for fire engines, etc, all of which could have reduced the damage to the building and/or injury and loss of life.

I live in a Victorian building (5 floors) and some work was recently done - in the corridor on each floor we now have a smoke detector and fire alarm, emergency lights and EXIT signage, fire extinguishers, etc. I am all too aware of the extensive use of timbre in Victorian buildings though... I guess that this is all hat can be done save tearing down the building and rebuilding it to modern standards.

All true...but in this case the fire came in through the windows on each floor.

 

[grober]

Sustaining Tower Blocks: THE DESIGN GUIDE

http://www.dbfacades.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Why-High-Quality-Overcladding.pdf

http://www.probyn-miers.com/perspec...rnal-cladding-panels-perspective-from-the-uk/******!

 

[219]

Hi,
Woke up this morning to terrible news of a massive fire in a London tower block.
London tower block fire: Flames engulf Grenfell Tower - BBC News
Frightening how seriously damaged the building is and how quickly the fire spread.
You would expect tower blocks like this to have sprinkler systems in place.
Let's also hope it was not terrorist related (somebody building a bomb in their apartment?)
Cheers
Steve

Very few have sprinklers ; however , tower blocks are meant to be compartmentalised and sealed between floors so that fire cannot spread throughout as has happened here .

Something has gone badly wrong .

 

[renault12ts]

Very few have sprinklers ; however , tower blocks are meant to be compartmentalised and sealed between floors so that fire cannot spread throughout as has happened here .

Something has gone badly wrong .

Yep...no one thought of a fire coming up the outside.

 

[Alex225]

Very shocking stuff and I was surprised to see how quickly that fire spread throughout the building. You almost imagine something made predominantly of concrete wouldn't necessarily spread quite like that.

I guess what ever finishings, cladding etc (I'm far from an expert) would be what was catching fire. Very scary scenario and very sad for those who lost lives!

That's the stuff of conspiracy theories... yes, sadly tall buildings can and do collapse if exposed to fire and extreme heat, in spite of what endless oddball websites and various armchair architects might say.

I think that post was referencing WTC Building 7 which was claimed to have collapsed due to fire only, in terms for the Twin Towers reference made.

 

[Darrell]

The fire has spread via the external cladding. This has ignited each flat on each level and there will plenty of combustible material in each flat.
All of the fire-check inside won't make any difference because the fire is spreading externally.
How the cladding caught fire and why it's not fireproof is a question for another day.

 

[ash59fifty-uk]

Very sad indeed. First job this morning for me by chance was inspecting a house that was recently gutted by fire, all that's left in there that looks normal is the asbestos materials

I'd imagine the tower originally may of had insulating board cladding to the externals, which had that of still been present then the fire wouldn't of gone like that. Will be plenty present inside maybe beneath windows and definitely around structural beams, maybe even sprayed coating too. Not to mention within fire doors and sporadically around the flats themselves

News updates on injuries don't sound good

 

[Darrell]

As we know, concrete doesn't burn but the heat will make it crack and weaken. The steel will expand and contract and distort therefore twisting out of shape which could make it collapse.
Some of the MACE guys off my job have gone over there to advise.

 

[nick mercedes]

I think there's an inherent issue with the large number of tower blocks built around London (and in other places in the UK) in the seventies by local councils and housing associations. There are several dozens of those just around where I live.

They were intended to 'vertically stock-pile' people on housing benefits or those looking for affordable housing near city centres. As such, they were built to the fire regulations in force at the time, and generally on budget.

This however does not make them a fire hazard in itself... the issue I see is that when you have a large building that was built with the purpose of providing free or low-cost accommodations in a central location, I imagine hat there would be some reluctance on the part of those responsible for its upkeep to spend vast amount of money on modernising it and making it safer.

I'd not worry about public housing, or use the fire as an excuse for yet more social cleansing.

Imagine how many of the new private flats that have gone up recently in London, some of which are very densely populated, feature the same plastic/composite cladding.

As it is there's supposedly a massive over supply of these "rabbit hutch" apartments, what happens when buyers discover there's a huge bill to re-clad them?

 

[grober]

Rydon - Construction, Development, Maintenance and Management

http://www.rydon.co.uk/what-we-do/r...ies/refurbishment-case-studies/grenfell-tower

http://www.rydon.co.uk/news/rydon-secures-10m-kensington-and-chelsea-tower-refurbishment

 

[renault12ts]

Rydon - Construction, Development, Maintenance and Management

Rydon secures £10m Kensington and Chelsea tower refurbishment

Their website remains open...they must be so proud.

 

[Darrell]

Their website remains open...they must be so proud.

We were wondering who done the work but surely the architect or whoever specified the materials must take a greater share of the blame. A lot depends on the type of contract.