Massive fire in London apartment block

Discussion in 'OT (OFF Topic) Forums' started by Steveml63, Jun 14, 2017.

  1. Happytalk73

    Happytalk73 MB Club Veteran

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    Why not? I'd happily have them.

    We have a smoke alarms/heat detectors in all our bedrooms/living areas. Not a building control requirement, but it should be.
     
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  2. geraldrobins

    geraldrobins Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Is it not a Part P requirement? I had to install additional detectors in habitable areas for a kitchen extension, not just in the kitchen. and Building Control requires Part P ?
     
  3. Happytalk73

    Happytalk73 MB Club Veteran

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    No, not a requirement in EVERY room of the house. When constructing extensions all they ask is that new smokes and heat detectors are linked to existing.

    When we moved into our house it was 12 months old. Smoke alarm in hallway & heat detector in kitchen. I fitted one in every room (not bathrooms) so they're all linked together. IMO this should be a reg in all new builds. Smoke alarms will save lives. Excessive insulation will not. :wallbash:
     
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  4. markjay

    markjay MB Club Veteran

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    When an existing building is inspected, findings might be classified as 'not to current standard', but not all 'not to current standard' findings require action.

    I.e., it is perfectly legal to have an existing building that does not meet regulations that would apply to a new build.
     
  5. Benzowner

    Benzowner Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    What, have a sprinkler go off and then have to wait for the water to arrive? Dry risers are usually for firemen to attach hoses to outlets higher up the building, not too sure, but I believe many have been removed, back in the day, they installed copper dry risers about 4" diameter, many parts of them were being stolen :(
     
  6. Happytalk73

    Happytalk73 MB Club Veteran

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    Agreed MJ. But once a complete refurb/renovation is undertaken the building should be brought up to current standards/regs.
     
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  7. ash59fifty-uk

    ash59fifty-uk Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    I've seen many still in situ, wether they are live though I couldn't say
     
  8. MancMike

    MancMike New Member

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    No offence, but that's idiotic coming from you. How many fires come from outside? Statistics can't help in this case. It's unusual.
     
  9. MancMike

    MancMike New Member

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    Come on Ant, I've set off smoke alarms unexpected when sanding, steaming, etc. If that destroyed all electronics in the house, I'd be displeased. It's just not a solution.

    Maybe if the only triggers were heat alarms rather than smoke but it's still not straight forward.

    Our 100 year old house has a central alarm system, if one alarm activates, they all sound. Similar to your new build.

    What happens in big commercial buildings is better. Like in the NCC where I work, there's a central alarm system. When there's a detection or alarm trigger, it sounds a warning "Staff call 33, etc", someone has to go to the panel and disarm it after investigating. If it's not cancelled, or is escalated, it turns into an evacuation message. It's pretty scary, but very effective. That'd work well in big blocks of flats who normally have a caretaker resident.
     
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  10. Happytalk73

    Happytalk73 MB Club Veteran

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    I'm just saying that the more technically advanced we become the more acceptable it be that we make steps to become safer. If there was a way to incorporate a sprinkler system into domestic properties then why not? Wouldn't bother me one bit.

    And if I've misunderstood your post and you're referring to a smoke alarm or heat sensor in every room then my house is fine with the concept. :dk:
     
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  11. markjay

    markjay MB Club Veteran

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    Non taken.

    There's a list of things that (according to speculations) - while not have prevented the fire - would have been able to slow it done or at least give more people a better chance of survival.

    Sprinklers might have slowed down the fire from spearing internally as fast as it did;

    Working/loud fire alarms might have alerted residents earlier (many said that the alarm was not heard inside their flats);

    There are some reports that the dry riser did not work (in-situ hoses that the fire brigade would want to connect their hoses to in order to get water up the building fast);

    There are questions about the type of external cladding installed, as well as the insulation behind the cladding and dampers (materials intended to stop fire spreading between building components) being absent.

    All these factors caused the smoke and fire to spread more quickly that it would have otherwise done.


    All speculation at this stage, but the point is that if sprinklers and working fire alarms etc etc were in place the fire might not have been prevented but it is likely that less people would have died.
     
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  12. dinoy

    dinoy Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    We have opened Al-Manaar Centre to be used as a temporary shelter for anyone affected by the fire...anyone means anyone of any faith or no faith. We'll also be providing emergency food and water as well as Iftar.
    Please help spread the above to our emergency services so that they are aware and can refer people to us.
    GrenfellTower fire - You can drop clothes, water or food to St Clements Church, 95 Sirdar Rd, W11 4EQ
    #GrenfellTower

    Feel free to share this post mchc.org.uk
    Both westway are also open for anyone affected . They can use the facilities .
     
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  13. geraldrobins

    geraldrobins Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Agreed I didnt say or mean all habitable areas. Before our extension I had a detector in the hallway but under part P I had to install one in the lounge as well as in the new kitchen and they are linked.
     
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  14. renault12ts

    renault12ts MB Club Veteran

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    Unlike you and KH I know what happened.

    Sometimes things are so obvious we don't have to wait like sheep for the official report 2 years down the line. Action be taken immediately and the focus will be on the particular type of flammable cladding that we all have seen falling from the building...on fire.

    Why wait for a report...start making things safe now. The pity is this cladding was used after several instances where the same sort of fire had occurred. Dubai immediately came to mind when I saw the very first pictures...did you go into denial and think...no no no I must not judge?

    People need to wake up. Evacuate all such buildings now unless some kid with a lighter decides to do something awful.
     
  15. geraldrobins

    geraldrobins Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    What type of cladding was it then? Please enlighten us.
     
  16. grober

    grober MB Club Veteran

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    Last edited: Jun 15, 2017
  17. Darrell

    Darrell Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Very flammable cladding.
     
  18. renault12ts

    renault12ts MB Club Veteran

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    This type.

     
  19. renault12ts

    renault12ts MB Club Veteran

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    Pontoneer, not having a go.

    I am aware that there is someone doing your job today who will have to photograph each and every corpse that will be discovered in Grenfell House. Not an easy nor palatable task.
     
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  20. Pontoneer

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    Tanks on the roof are normally for either domestic water supply , or for sprinklers , which are a high pressure low volume system for tackling small , localised fires before they take a grip ; sprinklers won't extinguish a well developed fire . Sprinkler systems also usually rely on a pump to supply pressure , and these can sometimes fail .

    Having said the above , sprinkler systems can extinguish a small fire before it develops into a big one , with minimal damage , and can prevent extensive damage as well as saving life . Glasgow Housing Association , a few years back now , signed up to an initiative to install sprinkler systems into all their new build properties , and some older properties are having them retrofitted - there are companies who specialise in doing this .

    Dry risers are pipework built into the building : there is an external access panel to which the 70mm hose from the pumps ( fire appliances ) connects , and similar outlets on each floor . This saves the time and trouble of running fire hose from the appliances up stairwells , or dropping a rope from a window and hoisting a hose and branch ( nozzle ) up - although with tenement buildings and other multi storey buildings with just a few floors this is still done .

    The normal procedure for tackling a fire in a multi storey building , bearing in mind that the buildings are compartmentalised by design and fire is not supposed to spread from one compartment to another , is to connect the water supply to the dry risers at ground level , and then send firefighters up to form a 'bridgehead' one or two floors below the fire floor . They then connect firefighting hose to the dry riser outlets on that floor and go up one , or at most two , flights of stairs , to tackle the fire on the floor above .

    In some cases , if lifts are still operating , they can take control of them using the fireman's switch , but sometimes firefighters have to run up stairs with boxes of hose and other kit .

    The main problem with dry risers is that they suffer from sabotage and vandalism : people steal the caps , valves and other components ( for scrap metal value ) - unless they can be pressurised from the bottom , and only the outlet required to fight the fire opened , then they can be rendered useless ...

    In a 'normal' situation , where a fire is contained to a single floor , even a single flat , thanks to the design of the building , the guys will go in and tackle it .

    Unfortunately , in this instance , there has been a serious failure of fire containment and that has not been possible .

    It is laudable that BA teams went in to evacuate and rescue as many people as possible , but looking at images of that building , there are limits to where even they can go .
     
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